[Wayner]

I think you have to define what distortion is. In my view, it's anything reproduced that is not as the original. So if the speed is too fast or too slow, that is distortion. If the volume you are listening to the recorded music is not the same volume as the original music was played (and then recorded), its distortion. If the spectrum of musical reproduction is not the same as the original recording event, its distortion. Then (but not finally) the grinding brutality on our ears by something gone wrong (electrically or mechanically) during reproduction is distortion.

So I ask myself, can we have distortion during a live event in which none of the instruments use pre-recorded (samples) as in a synthesizer? But what if a guitar string buzzes on a fret, is that not distortion? Or is that the character of the note. And if we have a dirty Hammond B3 organ playing into a Leslie speaker, is that not distortion?

Could I become fatigued listening to a live event with all natural type of instruments? And then, what happens if I do not like the music? Will I get fatigued really quick because of internal conflict (its music, and I like music, but not this kind.....)

Wayner

[*Scotty*]

The best example of how much processing the brain does behind the scenes, can be demonstrated by listening to a recording you have made of someone who was speaking in the room while you were present.
 Your brain filters out the effects that room echoes have on the sound of the human voice you listened to, while the microphone and the associated recorder do not have the benefit of any such processing and the room reverberation and the voice are both present in the recording. When the room acoustics are bad enough speech intelligibility suffers as does music reproduction. Even when the acoustics are not a problem they are still part of the equation that determines the processor loading that happens when we listen to something indoors rather than out of doors, which can occasionally approximate an anechoic chamber.
 Imagine what the processor loading must be like when any form of distortion is added by the stereo system on top the amount that may already be present in the recording. Its no wonder that the complaint of listening fatigue is so frequently heard.
Scotty

[*Scotty*]

I suspect it would depend on how personally irritating one found the sound of the Leslie speaker combined with the Hammond B3 to be. I wouldn't necessarily find either one problematic as long as the sound reinforcement system didn't suck on toast and the SPLs weren't too high.
Scotty

[charmerci]

I wonder if anyone on AC doesn't or hasn't experienced listener fatigue! 

[stereocilia]

Are you thinking of fatigue as a decrease in some auditory ability over time? Does it just become uncomfortably loud after awhile, or is it something else? I'm actually more likely to acclimate to sound as long as it isn't too loud. That's why my car stereo is always louder when I start the car than it was when I shut it down.

[charmerci]

Are you thinking of fatigue as a decrease in some auditory ability over time? Does it just become uncomfortably loud after awhile, or is it something else?

To me, it means that one gets mentally/physically tired after a period of time listening to a radio/sound system that grates on one's nerves or audio sensibility.

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
After a few years I have discovered that my ex-Naim ss amplifier
was irritating me, if you see what I mean,
I could not listen to music more than one hour,
there was something inside me that irritate me,
a sensation of fatigue and discomfort.
Now that I am tubes user, that went a way.
However, whrn I had my Audio Nirvana 8" full range driver
the big peak between 1KHz and 5KHz made music listening very tiriing.
But now, with my Omega 7F OBD with my Decware tube amplifier
that's all things of the past.
Solid state amplification is only for ambiance
and background music.

Guy 13

[Stercom]

My ears are very sensitive to brightness, so if there is any hint of brightness, I'm good for about 30 minutes. Bottom line -- if the music doesn't sound right (however you define it), why would you want to keep listening to it? So you find something else to do.

There's also a psychological element -- when you're tired, mentally drained, or don't feel well, your listening fatigue threshold may decrease significantly.

Ditto

Noise on the AC power supply causes listening fatigue too, this can be very obvious with dirty AC power but can be low-level like cheap connectors and cables if it's lower levels of noise on the AC line.

Poor vibration control may also cause fatigue, a good example is speakers spiked directly to a concrete floor... the better your vibration control the less fatigue you will have.

and Ditto.

Dave mentioned it but I want to emphasis I believe (yep, its a "belief" because I don't have scientific evidence) controlling EMI/RF is very important to reducing not only listener fatigue but physical fatigue in general.

[PMAT]

Female pop stars give me listening fatigue 100% of the time.

[setamp]

I am very sensitive to glare, hardness and grain in upper mids / lower treble.  When I hear this, I become tense.  If I fear more is to come, I remain tense in anticipation of the painful experience.  This is where I become fatigued.  I have evolved my system to eliminate this noise on all but a few poorly recorded cd's. 

[bladesmith]

That's is big question. There are so many differing setups. And so many variables. If I was experiencing fatigue. I would start doing some analyzing/testing of my equipment.

I start with the "signal to noise ratio". That's just a fundamental, IMHO.
( Fundimental high quality "S/N Ratio": remove all the "noise" from my system when it is at idle and the volume is at max.
Then use the "highest quality signal" injected into that low noise path.
Then, the path must be tested/conditioned to make the "flattest frequency response" possible.) 

Of course, that is what I would call the basics/fundamentals. From there, I would suspect something out side of my system, maybe my room size, treatments, acoustic panels, poor music recordings, etc, etc..

All that said, I think it's a very individual thing. Some recordings just seem raw/harsh to me. And no matter what I do with  that recording, it just sounds fatiguing. If I listen to it in FLAC and it is uncomfortable. I delete it. It just means it isn't for me.

good luck.

[ClefChef]

When we listen to music we "vocalize" with our vocal cord muscles. Those with trained ears tend to pseudo-vocalize more, especially if the music is perceived to be slightly out of tune. It happens unconsciously. When listening to a performer that sings or plays slightly too low the listener tries to "adjust" the pitch by straining his vocal cords, a version of silent scream "higher!"

Distortion, especially odd order, may affect us in a similar way the out of tune music does.

Eventually prolonged exposure to such music causes fatigue in the throat muscles (vocal cords) that is later perceived as a headache and takes a while of resting to go away.

I suppose it would explain why music sounds better after a drink or two - alcohol relaxes the muscles and the effects of distortion are less pronounced on our active listening apparatus.

 

[simoon]

My pet theory is that when we listen to an artificial reconstruction of something that we know the sound of, some part of the brain is busy trying to re-construct the sound to resemble the original. The greater the difference between what we are hearing and what we know to be reality, the harder the brain has to work. This causes the fatigue which accompanies any arduous mental activity.
Secondly, it is my guess that the more complex the distortion the harder the brain has to work, so that high levels of simple distortion–like even order harmonics added by tube amps–are tolerated, even enjoyed, while low levels of complex distortions are not tolerated so well. Complexity goes beyond the harmonic structure, of course, and includes relationships to signal dynamics and phase errors introduced by crossover components and speaker design, not to speak of digital and analog processing.

Well stated. This has been my contention for years.

I believe this is why MP3's, even high bitrate MP3's bother me. My mind is trying to fill in too much missing info. Especially the all too important ambient cues.

[Freo-1]

My pet theory is that when we listen to an artificial reconstruction of something that we know the sound of, some part of the brain is busy trying to re-construct the sound to resemble the original. The greater the difference between what we are hearing and what we know to be reality, the harder the brain has to work. This causes the fatigue which accompanies any arduous mental activity.
Secondly, it is my guess that the more complex the distortion the harder the brain has to work, so that high levels of simple distortion–like even order harmonics added by tube amps–are tolerated, even enjoyed, while low levels of complex distortions are not tolerated so well. Complexity goes beyond the harmonic structure, of course, and includes relationships to signal dynamics and phase errors introduced by crossover components and speaker design, not to speak of digital and analog processing.

I think you are onto something.   

[Wayner]

If that is true (and I'm not saying that it isn't), then we should feel the same effect watching a movie or TV, as our brain is busy putting a bunch of still pictures together to make motion. No?

Wayner

[OzarkTom]

I have a major problem with AC glare in my hometown. 100% of the time, if I can switch the amp to battery power, the glare and fatigue disappears. Weekends are always the worst. But after midnight, even the AC powered amps will sound listenable. I have this problem with tube or SS amps. I get better results in the fall and spring when people are not using their furnaces or air conditioner units. I have had this problem for over 30 years in this small town.

[stereocilia]

I'm proposing that listening fatigue is just a description of the sensation you have when something is too loud; it's nothing more than more loudness than you want.

[OzarkTom]

I'm proposing that listening fatigue is just a description of the sensation you have when something is too loud; it's nothing more than more loudness than you want.

Not here. I hear the AC glare playing my system at levels of 65-75db.

[charmerci]

If that is true (and I'm not saying that it isn't), then we should feel the same effect watching a movie or TV, as our brain is busy putting a bunch of still pictures together to make motion. No?

Wayner

Ever watch a three and a half hour movie? I sure get tired!

[megabigeye]

Hyperacusis is a real phenomenon that often accompanies hearing loss and tinnitus. In this case the compression function of the audiovestibular system ain't working right.

Phonphobia is a dislike of loud sounds, and misophonia is a negative emotional response to some kind of sound (nails on a chalkboard, etc.). Listener fatigue is probably some special kind of misophonia.

If listener fatigue is real, my guess is that it must originate further up the central nervous system rather than at the middle ear, the cochlea, the auditory nerve, or the brainstem. The reason I say this is that it we can record the electrical output from these parts in response to sound, and as far as I know the responses don't decay.

This is kind of funny; I think I suffer from almost everything you mention here (except maybe phonophobia).
Having experienced listening fatigue, I don't think it's really the same as misophonia.  Similar at times, perhaps, but not the same.  Misophonia usually occurs for me for specific noises (people chewing, rustling of plastic packaging) and results in emotional (often visceral) reactions that I'm not always aware of at the time.  For example, I'll be sitting on the couch, minding my own business (i.e., spacing out) and suddenly find myself getting irritable only to later realize it's because my girlfriend is rustling a bag of chips or something.

Listening fatigue, for me, is more related to hyperacusis or actual distortion.  I don't experience it too often anymore, but it's usually centered around glaring mids, like trumpets or female vocals, and usually in a too-loud bar or similar place.  It's more of a feeling of "Oh, God!  Make it stop!" rather than wanting to put my fist through somebody's face, which is what misophonia is like.^*
Or maybe I should say that hyperacusis can lead to listening fatigue?  That's probably more accurate than to say that they're related.
I used to experience listening fatigue semi-regularly when I was younger and used cheap headphones and cheap CD players.  Usually it would happen if I fell asleep while listening to music or if I had been listening for more than a couple of hours at a time.  From my experience, I'm going to agree with what others have said that it has to do with distortion and my brain interpolating what I'm hearing into something that makes sense.  I think of it as "mental dithering" and after a while my "processor" just can't handle any more and has to cool off.


^*I would like to clarify that as a general rule I don't want to put my fist through my girlfriend's face.  Though sometimes she does think it's okay to eat Airheads in bed. *rustlerustle* *glomglom* *cringe*