[c_note]

James, can you provide some insight on the ventilation requirements for a Bryston power amplifier?  For this question specifically, the 7BSST2.

I'm building a new home and am working with my builder to construct a custom wall of built ins to house my television and stereo.  The current plan is to house each 7B in a drawer designed to hold at least 100 pounds.  The drawer interior would be 30 inches wide, 21 inches deep, and 11 inches tall--far larger than the 7B.  Also, the back of the drawer would have a large cutout for cables, power cords, etc.; and behind this cutout would be an open air space several inches deep to facilitate system cabling for the entire wall unit.

I prefer to keep my 7Bs on 24/7--not the most earth friendly solution, but they sound better and it prevents the wear and tear of daily power up/down.  I'm a "set it and forget it" kind of guy.

Just want to confirm that my current plan doesn't have any unintended operational or fire hazard consequences.  I think it's fine, given the large size of the drawers and the easy access to open air in the rear of the drawer.

All thoughts and comments are appreciated!

[Grit]

Is the front of the cabinet closed (like with a door), or open to air?

I have all of my electronics in a Salamander cabinet that is all enclosed except for the back (wife's requirement + 15 month old toddler). My experience is that there was not enough natural air flow (understandably) for a 4B-SST2 or 9B-SST2 (not together... they were the only heat-generating items in the cabinet). Both went into thermal shutdown after light use. Even my BHA-1 would go into shutdown.

So, I mounted a single 120mm computer fan in the back, blowing air in to the cabinets. The back is still otherwise open, so air escapes the same way it gets in. It's very inefficient. I have the fans at a very low speed (about 700 rpm) and they're inaudible from 12" away. This small (and inexpensive) addition provides a very small amount of air flow, but all of my components are MUCH cooler than they used to be.

As long as you're doing all the custom work, I'd consider using some mechanism to facilitate airflow. Even the slightest amount can make worlds of difference.

[dgarratt]

Is the front of the cabinet closed (like with a door), or open to air?

I have all of my electronics in a Salamander cabinet that is all enclosed except for the back (wife's requirement + 15 month old toddler). My experience is that there was not enough natural air flow (understandably) for a 4B-SST2 or 9B-SST2 (not together... they were the only heat-generating items in the cabinet). Both went into thermal shutdown after light use. Even my BHA-1 would go into shutdown.

So, I mounted a single 120mm computer fan in the back, blowing air in to the cabinets. The back is still otherwise open, so air escapes the same way it gets in. It's very inefficient. I have the fans at a very low speed (about 700 rpm) and they're inaudible from 12" away. This small (and inexpensive) addition provides a very small amount of air flow, but all of my components are MUCH cooler than they used to be.

As long as you're doing all the custom work, I'd consider using some mechanism to facilitate airflow. Even the slightest amount can make worlds of difference.

This has been my experience also...a little bit of air flow makes a huge difference.

[95Dyna]

Another variable is your speakers.  If they are efficient, stay above 4 ohms continuously and do not present difficult phase angles the amps will generate less heat and you can get away with less (but not no) ventilation.  I have a pair of 7BSST2's and would not install them in an enclosed space that has only cable egress as a way out for the heated air regardless of the aforementioned speaker variables.  Also, the cable egress is partially blocked serving its primary purpose.  Also remember the 7B's are convection cooled and will direct the heated air straight up from the heat sinks so the space should be ventilated somewhere at the top.

BTW, I think James stated at one time that frequency of startup and shutdowns are not a concern on Bryston amps.  It's my experience that they start to sound optimal after 30-45 minutes of warm up so you may want to consider helping the cause by not leaving them up continually.

[srb]

BTW, I think James stated at one time that frequency of startup and shutdowns are not a concern on Bryston amps.  It's my experience that they start to sound optimal after 30-45 minutes of warm up so you may want to consider helping the cause by not leaving them up continually.

It can also help your personal cause.  A pair of 7BSST² consume 430W at idle.  If they are on an additional 16 hours per day they will consume an extra ~ 206kWh per month.  At a national average of $0.1256/kWh it would cost an additional ~ $26 per month / $312 per year.

(Rates vary from a low of $0.0864 to a high of $0.369 per kWh, so the additional cost could vary from $18 to $76 per month / $216 to $912 per year, depending on location).

Steve

[c_note]

Thank you to everyone for feedback.  Yes, the front of the cabinet is closed, but the rear opening is substantial, measuring 21 inches wide, and six inches tall.  The rear opening is larger than the 7B!  As indicated, behind the rear opening is three inches of empty "dead space" to enable cable connectivity.

Regarding the Salamander stand comparison, do you recall the physical dimensions of the drawers?  A Bryston 7B is about 17 inches wide, 15 inches deep, and 6 inches tall, or 1530 cubic inches of volume.  These drawer interiors will be 30 inches wide, 21 inches deep, and 11 inches tall, or 6930 cubic inches of empty space.  So, the Bryston will only occupy about 22% of the drawer's cubic volume, and it will have ample rear airflow.

Please see pictures below.  I think this should be fine, but very much appreciate all suggestions and constructive criticism.  Thank you!

[yioryos]

C-note
If you are planning to put the the 7b in the drawer as shows in the pic,please don't,it will certainly overheat in there.
It's all closed in but the cut out at the back which to me looks insufficient for ventilation purposes, now if you could remove the front panel then I guess it should be alright plus you get to see the amp.
How about removing the white panel and leave the trim alone,that would look good and prevent overheat.
Best
George

[95Dyna]

I see a non ventilation issue.  The speaker cable terminals are at the bottom of the chassis.  If your cables are not pliable (like my stiff as a board WireWorld Silver Eclipse 6's) and you are not using spades you are going to be very tight on space behind the amp to get the cables up over the lip of the cutout.  The actual depth of the 7B if you include the length of the terminals is 16.5".  You will want to leave 2-3" clearance in the front to get your hand down to the power switch and to see the LED's.  This leaves 1.5-2.5" between the end of the terminals and the back of the drawer.  You won't be able to use bananas regardless of cable pliability.  You will need to connect spades to the top of the terminals so they go up then out the back.

Also, when you shut the drawer how much clearance is their to the back wall and where will the exiting air travel?  Can you do a cutout on the countertop above the two top drawers and fit a WAF friendly grill in the cutouts to allow the air to flow out.  That way cooler air can naturally flow in the cable egress into the heat sinks then straight up and out.

[Grit]

My Salamander is about 20" wide, 19" tall, and 21" deep. The front door is closed, the back is entirely open (except for the fan hanging down, blowing air in). There's also a 3"x5" grated opening in the bottom for air flow.

My 9B-SST2 has been on for hours, playing all 5 channels but at very low volume (maybe 60 db). It's very warm (bordering on hot) to the touch.

I call all but promise you the amps (and almost any other electronics) will overheat and fail in your current setup. In fact, i can't imagine any amount of ventilation that would correct that problem under those circumstances (perhaps forced air conditioning into each drawer?).

Best option is to scrap the drawer concept, put shelves in, and perhaps some type of front drawers that are ventilated. Even then, you'd still need some kind of limited forced air flow.

For what it's worth, it looks beautiful!

[mcgsxr]

While I can appreciate the appeal of a clean install, I would be concerned about ventilation of any amp in a drawer.

I'd say if you can install fans in the back of the cabinet to flood the drawer with air that would be good.

Even better (though visually less so) would be to do a cutout in the drawer front (could frame up some speaker cloth so you could not see the amp, but would allow air flow) to help flow the air.

I went with a media closet in my case, to hide the gear but still allow access when required.

Looks like a great wall unit by the way.

[Don_S]

Great idea on the cutout in the drawer front. Maybe cutout or drill the rear as well but do not use metal mesh. No need for mesh in the rear and using it might cause an unwanted accidental electrical contact.  Instead of speaker cloth in the front, consider a mesh or grill insert.  It could be painted to match the cabinets or an accent color. But even that may not be enough ventilation.

Something like these.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Building-Products-36-in-x-36-in-Cloverleaf-Aluminum-Sheet-Silver-57166/202091746

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Building-Products-12-in-x-24-in-Union-Jack-Aluminum-Sheet-in-Black-56006/100274105

This one is a bronze color.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Building-Products-3-ft-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Venetian-Bronze-Lincane-Sheet-57015/202525469

While I can appreciate the appeal of a clean install, I would be concerned about ventilation of any amp in a drawer.

I'd say if you can install fans in the back of the cabinet to flood the drawer with air that would be good.

Even better (though visually less so) would be to do a cutout in the drawer front (could frame up some speaker cloth so you could not see the amp, but would allow air flow) to help flow the air.

I went with a media closet in my case, to hide the gear but still allow access when required.

Looks like a great wall unit by the way.

[95Dyna]

Great idea on the cutout in the drawer front. Maybe cutout or drill the rear as well but do not use metal mesh. No need for mesh in the rear and using it might cause an unwanted accidental electrical contact.  Instead of speaker cloth in the front, consider a mesh or grill insert.  It could be painted to match the cabinets or an accent color. But even that may not be enough ventilation.

Something like these.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Building-Products-36-in-x-36-in-Cloverleaf-Aluminum-Sheet-Silver-57166/202091746

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Building-Products-12-in-x-24-in-Union-Jack-Aluminum-Sheet-in-Black-56006/100274105

This one is a bronze color.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Building-Products-3-ft-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Venetian-Bronze-Lincane-Sheet-57015/202525469

Maybe I'm missing something but it seem counterintuitive to me to attempt to create a horizontal flow of air around an object that is designed to move air vertically via convection.  The heat sink fins are vertical.  The air that is between them heats up then rises dragging the ambient cooler air into the fins to repeat the process.  This was my thought when suggesting cutouts and grills on the counter top above the drawer.  In any event I agree that this is not an optimal installation option regardless of what steps you take.  Even if you find a way to solve it you still have the aforementioned cable dressing issue.

[Don_S]

95Dyna,

You make some good points. Ventilation above the amp would be optimal. But even with a grill above the amp there must also be a source of cooler (intake) air.

If this was my project I would scrap the drawer concept and go with a shelf and vented door with the aforementioned open back. That would make cabling much easier and give more breathing space. And the door could be opened during hard use. I also think the Bryston is a lot of weight for a drawer. Besides structural concerns it would seem to be much easier to slide an amp onto a shelf rather than lift it up and down into a drawer. Drawers also require clearance for hands and arms to fit beside and then under the amp. A drawer "eats" space.

c_note, All that said, I am envious.  That installation is very clean and attractive. I refer to my installation style as post apocalyptic. Good luck. 

Maybe I'm missing something but it seem counterintuitive to me to attempt to create a horizontal flow of air around an object that is designed to move air vertically via convection.  The heat sink fins are vertical.  The air that is between them heats up then rises dragging the ambient cooler air into the fins to repeat the process.  This was my thought when suggesting cutouts and grills on the counter top above the drawer.  In any event I agree that this is not an optimal installation option regardless of what steps you take.  Even if you find a way to solve it you still have the aforementioned cable dressing issue.

[95Dyna]

95Dyna,

You make some good points. Ventilation above the amp would be optimal. But even with a grill above the amp there must also be a source of cooler (intake) air.

If this was my project I would scrap the drawer concept and go with a shelf and vented door with the aforementioned open back. That would make cabling much easier and give more breathing space. And the door could be opened during hard use. I also think the Bryston is a lot of weight for a drawer. Besides structural concerns it would seem to be much easier to slide an amp onto a shelf rather than lift it up and down into a drawer. Drawers also require clearance for hands and arms to fit beside and then under the amp. A drawer "eats" space.

c_note, All that said, I am envious.  That installation is very clean and attractive. I refer to my installation style as post apocalyptic. Good luck. 

I agree with you, Don.  I'm just trying to bear in mind the real problem c_note is facing and that is his lovely bride and her idea as to how the room should look.  I mean, have you ever tried to talk about the laws of physics with your wife?  The dog will look more interested 

[Grit]

I'd think they could convert those drawers to shelves easy enough and turn the drawer fronts into cabinet doors. Then incorporate some forced air ventilation and you'd be set.

[Don_S]

Does the amp have to be in the center?  If cables are long enough the amp could be positioned in one of the shelf areas. 

A great excuse for an upgrade.  "Honey, I am going to need new cables".   

[Chicago]

Grit came up with the same idea I was going to mention. 

I face the same designer issues around my house.  I don't have room for a separate listening room so I had to work around what was acceptable to my better half.   

I have a similar set up but instead of drawers I have shelves with glass doors.  I have maybe 2" to each side and I am guessing 6" above the amp.  I leave the 4Bsst on 24/7 and crack the door open maybe 3" and I have never had it overheat.  I don't have any ventilating fans but they sound like a good idea, especially with the limited amount of space in back.

As someone mentioned you could discuss the idea of converting the drawers to shelves and make the doors look like the drawers for aesthetic purposes.   

You probably already checked your manual for ventilation requirements and I am pretty sure Bryston has cooling fans for tight installs. 

Good Listening,
Mike

[James Tanner]

Hi Mike

I like the 2 "Woofers" in the corner - is that your Sub?

james

[Chicago]

Yes, they act as great Sub's within a certain range.   

We were in the middle of a project, new sliders and things got a little tight.  Turns out the new pup likes the dog cage there so it stays until he turns 18 months old and stops chewing.  Funny how the wife factor can ebb and tide.  Gear has to be hidden, almost invisible but the pooch crate can go where ever the pooch is happy.

Good Listening,
Mike

[srb]

Funny how the wife factor can ebb and tide.  Gear has to be hidden, almost invisible but the pooch crate can go where ever the pooch is happy.

Maybe you should get a pair of these, which could be placed out in the room where they sound best, which is usually verboten.

 

Steve