list system component's level of importance

JohnR · « **Reply #80 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 10:05 am »

Did you even read the definition?

"a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument"

As to specifically who you are referring to as "audio frauds" and so on, perhaps you should say, since those are your words.

JLM · « **Reply #81 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 11:07 am »

Could have predicted that this thread would be a train wreck.

All these arguments makes me want to sell off my main system and just settle down to enjoying music on a nice simple system.

JohnR · « **Reply #82 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 11:45 am »

So... JLM! What is stopping you (from enjoying music)? I find it hard to believe that it's a single forum thread. Whether the "system" is simple or complex, that (enjoying music) is after all surely the goal from the beginning.

AJinFLA · « **Reply #83 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 12:24 pm »

Quote from: werd on 18 Apr 2017, 09:17 am

Electrical engineers couldn't make a system sound great good if their lives depended on it. Only because, system building and what sounds good has NOTHING to do with electrical engineering.

Meanwhile, back on planet earth https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=alan+blumlein

macrojack · « **Reply #84 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:16 pm »

Quote from: werd on 18 Apr 2017, 09:17 am

Electrical engineers couldn't make a system sound great good if their lives depended on it. Only because, system building and what sounds good has NOTHING to do with electrical engineering.

This is the vapid frustration of am uneducated mind. Engineers are students of scientific development and organization. They take what has been established by other engineers and refine and expand it, ad infinitum. Audiophiles are hobbyists who tweak. That is to say, they randomly modify and manipulate the engineers' accomplishments until they manage a "difference". This difference could be a breakthrough, I suppose, but usually amounts to a mere alteration sufficient enough to warrant self-congratulation.
Without engineers there would have been no DAC, no digital anything. In fact, there would be no vinyl records. There would be very little of anything actually.
Audiophiles are like diners who visit the restaurants of great chefs and who proceed to liberally apply salt, pepper and ketchup to a dish they ordered in anticipation of the improvements that their ministrations will yield. Have you ever seen such a recommendation on this site? Can't wait to get my hands on one of these so I can see what mods will do to improve it.
Werd, why don't you ask Vinnie Rossi if he thinks an EE can make a system sound good?

AJinFLA · « **Reply #85 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:33 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 18 Apr 2017, 01:16 pm

Werd, why don't you ask Vinnie Rossi if he thinks an EE can make a system sound good?

Or better yet, the guy who made Werds NOLA speakers https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-marchisotto-9a57ab38

JohnR · « **Reply #86 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:41 pm »

Werd (I realize now) is talking about a system, not individual components.... the distinction is... well, elusive.

I think, though, that the increasing level of integration seen in e.g. Phantom, active speakers etc, is where things are going. It's inevitable.

AJinFLA · « **Reply #87 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:50 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 18 Apr 2017, 01:41 pm

No no. Werd is talking about a system, not individual components.

Ahh, so Carl et al are incapable of stitching together a decent sounding system then, being clueless about that as an EE.
Got it.

AJinFLA · « **Reply #88 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:54 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 18 Apr 2017, 01:41 pm

active speakers

Wireless active pair of speakers with phone as source, comprising entire music system? OMG, nooooo.....

Elizabeth · « **Reply #89 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:56 pm »

I want to call out the idiots who totally destroyed this thread with crap they added for no reason other than to fill it full of shit.
Between late last night and this morning it was turned into a stinking pile. Where prior to that it actually HAD a life. And had been interesting to read and think about.
So no thanks... jerks.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #90 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:57 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 18 Apr 2017, 01:16 pm

This is the vapid frustration of an uneducated mind. Engineers are students of scientific development and organization. They take what has been established by other engineers and refine and expand it, ad infinitum. Audiophiles are hobbyists who tweak. That is to say, they randomly modify and manipulate the engineers' accomplishments until they manage a "difference". This difference could be a breakthrough, I suppose, but usually amounts to a mere alteration sufficient enough to warrant self-congratulation.
Without engineers there would have been no DAC, no digital anything. In fact, there would be no vinyl records. There would be very little of anything actually.
Audiophiles are like diners who visit the restaurants of great chefs and who proceed to liberally apply salt, pepper and ketchup to a dish they ordered in anticipation of the improvements that their ministrations will yield. Have you ever seen such a recommendation on this site? Can't wait to get my hands on one of these so I can see what mods will do to improve it.

I need to print T-shirts with the above quote and sell it at every single audio trade show in the country.

Macrojack...that was beautiful.

Oh. I almost forgot. Does this entire thread even belong in the Lab Forum?

Best,
Anand.

JohnR · « **Reply #91 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:57 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 18 Apr 2017, 01:56 pm

I want to call out the idiots who totally destroyed this thread with crap they added for no reason other than to fill it full of shit.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Seriously. Take a break?

JohnR · « **Reply #92 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 01:59 pm »

Quote from: AJinFLA on 18 Apr 2017, 01:54 pm

Wireless active pair of speakers with phone as source, comprising entire music system? OMG, nooooo.....

Within our lifetimes, the idea that bandwidth limitations would prevent streaming audio at whatever sample rate or resolution you like from whatever device you want will become laughable.

Progress.

roscoe65 · « **Reply #93 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:03 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 18 Apr 2017, 01:57 pm

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Seriously. Take a break?

WERD's posts had drifted to the point of being distracting and insulting. I'm in agreement on that point.

JohnR · « **Reply #94 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:07 pm »

The plural was used several times... this thread is in "The Lab" so I would think some technical orientation or bias would be expected/accepted (on the off chance that's relevant).

Davey · « **Reply #95 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:21 pm »

Quote from: poseidonsvoice on 18 Apr 2017, 01:57 pm

I need to print T-shirts with the above quote and sell it at every single audio trade show in the country.

Macrojack...that was beautiful.

Oh. I almost forgot. Does this entire thread even belong in the Lab Forum?

Best,
Anand.

+2 on that. I'm sick and tired of EE's being looked down upon by nose-in-the-air types on forums like this. (This forum is not unusual BTW.)
The knee-jerking premise that EE's are (by default) incapable of grasping the whole picture with audio system design is insulting.
Well put by Macrojack.
Yes, this thread isn't even appropriate for this Circle.

Dave.

twitch54 · « **Reply #96 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 18 Apr 2017, 01:16 pm

This is the vapid frustration of am uneducated mind. Engineers are students of scientific development and organization. They take what has been established by other engineers and refine and expand it, ad infinitum. Audiophiles are hobbyists who tweak. That is to say, they randomly modify and manipulate the engineers' accomplishments until they manage a "difference". This difference could be a breakthrough, I suppose, but usually amounts to a mere alteration sufficient enough to warrant self-congratulation.
Without engineers there would have been no DAC, no digital anything. In fact, there would be no vinyl records. There would be very little of anything actually.
Audiophiles are like diners who visit the restaurants of great chefs and who proceed to liberally apply salt, pepper and ketchup to a dish they ordered in anticipation of the improvements that their ministrations will yield. Have you ever seen such a recommendation on this site? Can't wait to get my hands on one of these so I can see what mods will do to improve it.
Werd, why don't you ask Vinnie Rossi if he thinks an EE can make a system sound good?

Good rebuttal Jack, I agree !

JohnR · « **Reply #97 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:25 pm »

Quote from: Davey on 18 Apr 2017, 02:21 pm

+2 on that. I'm sick and tired of EE's being looked down upon by nose-in-the-air types on forums like this.

Why can it not be made appropriate for The Lab? (I mean, it's here, and some of us have been posting on that basis.)

Also, I'd appreciate it if you would stop taking shots at AudioCircle as a whole, it's cost me some time this week and I don't have more to spare. Thanks

Davey · « **Reply #98 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:47 pm »

John,

You're being too defensive. I made an observation regarding other forums as well. "This forum is not unusual BTW."

This thread has no technical discussion at all. It's pseudo-philosophical. That's why I don't think it's appropriate for this circle.
That said, the OP (who no longer posts here) didn't have a clue regarding audio. So, it's not surprising he didn't know in what circle to place his query.

Dave.

JohnR · « **Reply #99 on:** 18 Apr 2017, 02:49 pm »

Dave, my request stands. And now I've asked twice. Thank you