[apstoltz]

Hi guys, I have a small 2 channel system and run the Dayton DTA-120 and mainly plug my iPhone into it. I want to step up my audio quality and I am looking for a dac $150 or less to plug my iPhone into and then route into the dayton. I am looking at the Schiit Modi with Uber and the XiangSheng unit. Anyone advice or other options to fit the bill would help with my decision. Thanks.

[lacro]

I have a Modi I use with my PC and class D amps, sounds great!

[DZetye]

There was a Nano iDSD on Audiogon today for $145.  Don't know if it still available or not

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have used a Maverick Tube Magic D-1 with an op amp upgrade and tube upgrade.  It will run about $250 with the upgrade but it adds some warmth and tube sound and smooths up the edges of my Dayton DTA-100a.  The sound stage is wider and the bass is tighter.

[apstoltz]

What op amp and tube did you upgrade to?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I believe I am using the LM4562NA, bought them from digikey for about $10.  You can by a pair of brown dog Burr Brown 0627's direct from Maverick Audio though.  The LM is a huge improvement over the stock OA.  You can also buy the D1 with the 0627 OA's installed.

I have a few tubes for it but I think I am currently running a 396a or a 2C51.  I would have to check the tube to be sure.  The tube warmed up the sound a bit and added depth to the midrange.

Maverick now makes the D2 which is a dedicated DAC with a better usb section.

[charmerci]

Hi guys, I have a small 2 channel system and run the Dayton DTA-120 and mainly plug my iPhone into it. I want to step up my audio quality and I am looking for a dac $150 or less to plug my iPhone into and then route into the dayton. I am looking at the Schiit Modi with Uber and the XiangSheng unit. Anyone advice or other options to fit the bill would help with my decision. Thanks.

I'm not familiar with iPhones. Do they have a USB output or do you need/have a special adapter?

Because for that Dayton amp an inexpensive DAC like this would be sufficient.

[JLM]

A Pure i-20 ($99 dock will extract digital from the iDevice into the built in 24/192 DAC) is the obvious solution if you want to stick with the iPhone:

http://www.amazon.com/Pure-i-20-30-Pin-iPhone-Speaker/dp/B0049MOK92

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/pure.htm

[srb]

Concerning the Pure i-20 dock, if you have an iPhone 4 or older it will mate with the i-20's 30-pin connector.  If you have an iPhone 5 you will need a Lightning to 30-pin Adapter.  Apparently the iPhone 6 is not compatible with the i-20 dock.

Steve

[apstoltz]

I looked at the pure i20 but unfortunately I have a iphone 6. I like to have the option to be able to accept different sources. The Mac D1 looks appealing with the op amp and tube upgrade. I am leaning toward this or the schiit modi 2 uber.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

If you are interested in the Maverick D1 or D2, I had a chance to compare the D1 to an AQ Dragonfly DAC V1.  I bought one for my son for Xmas who is using it and the the D-1 with an AVA Ultra Plus preamp, Parasound A21 amp and PSB B6 speakers.  The D1 sounds much better than the DF using SPDIF while the DF sounds better using USB.  Bear in mind we have the original D1, the new D1 plus is improved and has a much better usb section than the original.

I am really impressed with the DF, especially on hirez music.  I down loaded a song in 44 and 96 format and was able to A-B them.  The 96 had better tone and decay.  The DF leans a little to the warmer side in this system and has good detail and resolution.   I picked it up for $89 on sale.

[DS-21]

Hi guys, I have a small 2 channel system and run the Dayton DTA-120 and mainly plug my iPhone into it. I want to step up my audio quality and I am looking for a dac $150 or less to plug my iPhone into and then route into the dayton. I am looking at the Schiit Modi with Uber and the XiangSheng unit. Anyone advice or other options to fit the bill would help with my decision. Thanks.

What makes you think that merely adding a new box will "step up [your] audio quality"? Is there a measurable deficiency in the iPhone's analog output when driving a line-level load that you can point to?

Feel free to buy whatever, but realistically it won't actually do anything to the sound.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

What makes you think that merely adding a new box will "step up [your] audio quality"? Is there a measurable deficiency in the iPhone's analog output when driving a line-level load that you can point to?

Feel free to buy whatever, but realistically it won't actually do anything to the sound.

I am curious as to why you think that a DAC will not improve the sound from the Iphone.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  The Iphone will put out a digital signal which them must be converted to an analog signal by the DAC.  I can see your point if you are talking about MP3 as that format sounds like crap no matter what you do,  but the DAC should improve on it some what.

[Letitroll98]

What makes you think that merely adding a new box will "step up [your] audio quality"? Is there a measurable deficiency in the iPhone's analog output when driving a line-level load that you can point to?

Feel free to buy whatever, but realistically it won't actually do anything to the sound.

My question is about the meaning of your post.  Are you saying the output from the iPhone is so poor that nothing could improve it, or that all DACs sound the same and none are any better than an iPhone?

[DS-21]

My question is about the meaning of your post.  Are you saying the output from the iPhone is so poor that nothing could improve it, or that all DACs sound the same and none are any better than an iPhone?

Some can be better but not in a relevant, material, or audible way.

The iPhone's DAC is known to have ruler-flat FR, high S/N ratio giving over 17 bits real resolution (better than an awful lot of standalone "high end" DACs), and effectively perfect channel balancing (again, hardly a given in the so-called high end, unfortunately). There are several published reviews you can search for if so inclined.

For driving low-impedance headphones one may want a lower output impedance, and for driving high-impedance headphones (e.g. Sean 580/600/650's) one will want more voltage swing. But for driving an amp that can reach its maximum volume with 1Vrms output there's just no sonic reason to waste money on a separate box. Unless one doesn't want high-fidelity reproduction and chooses to insert an effects box of some sort.

The biggest improvement the OP could make in terms of improving audio fidelity by swapping electronics is to ditch that low-fi Tripath amp for an amp that actually has flat response when driving loudspeakers. If volume control on the amp isn't an issue, something like a Parasound Zamp would work nicely. Unlike adding a new DAC, swapping an amp that swings pretty wildly into non-resistive loads for an amp with flat FR will make a real difference. Whether or not that difference is preferred or not is a separate question, but at least unlike adding a DAC it will be a real difference and not an illusory one.

[mcgsxr]

Interesting perspective.

If you are fond of the sound of the DAC in the iPone, why not use a breakout cable from the headphone out to the amp you recommend?

That would allow for volume control.

I have an old Gen 3 iTouch that I use for a portable system outside in the summer.  I have used LOD cables out of the same iTouch in the past, to a good headphone amp and thought it was good.  I found that the headphone output was not as good as the LOD cable, but it could just be me.

I recall that there are a number of iPhone specific DAC's and lots of happy users.  For my main system, I used Logitech Media Server s/w and either a Logitech Touch, or a hacked Pogoplug running LMS.  I am fond of low end usb dac's often found around $100.  There are many excellent choices.

[srb]

I have an old Gen 3 iTouch that I use for a portable system outside in the summer.  I have used LOD cables out of the same iTouch in the past, to a good headphone amp and thought it was good.  I found that the headphone output was not as good as the LOD cable, but it could just be me.

Although the Apple DACs and headphone amplifiers vary from series to series, my experience with both an iPod Classic and iPod Touch 4th Gen was that the line out was clearer, had less noise and better high frequency response than the headphone output.

Makes sense that you wouldn't want to have two preamplifiers in the signal path.  Maybe it would sound better if you were going direct into a power amplifier, but I wouldn't have enough trust in the iPod volume control to even try it.

Steve

[gregfisk]

This is the first I have heard that the iPhone 6 is not compatible with the Pure i20. I use an i20 with a iPhone 4, 5, 5s and iPod classic and the line out is much better by a high margin than the headphone out. This would have been a good solution as the dac in the Pure i20 is pretty darn good and unit only costs $100.00.

[DS-21]

If you are fond of the sound of the DAC in the iPone, why not use a breakout cable from the headphone out to the amp you recommend?

First, I don't have feelings like "fond" for a mere DAC. The DAC in the current several generations of iPhones*  is a commodity part that does its job with sufficient precision and accuracy to be audibly perfect, no more and no less. A Benchmark or an Auralic Vega or DCS or whatever may offer superior measured performance, but the differences fall below known audibility thresholds so they are irrelevant to people who use audio equipment to actually, you know, enjoy music.

DACs have no sound at all unless they suck, and the measurements of the iPhone DAC clearly show that (a) it doesn't suck and (b) the circuits after it provide enough clean voltage swing to drive pretty consumer amplifiers to their maximum output level.

*So phrased only because I cannot recall seeing measurements of one before the iPhone 5, not because of any known problems with earlier models.

Second, yes that's exactly what I'd recommend: a breakout cable from the headphone jack to the amp input. Or breakout cable from an AirPort Express, because that provides an actual practical benefit (no wire needed), has an equally transparent DAC, and provides the additional virtue of much higher voltage output (2Vrms in the current model) on the analog output. Also, it has the possible psychic benefit for the OP that s/he can buy something new.

I recall that there are a number of iPhone specific DAC's and lots of happy users.

Which is certainly evidence for the "ooh neat new shiny thing" effect, but says absolutely nothing about the performance of the iPhone's built-in DAC, or for that matter of any performance delta between the iPhone's internal DAC and an external box.

To show how absolutely absurd that line of "reasoning" is, let me throw it back at you with a minor tweak:

"I recall that there is a lot of health advice from Dr. Oz and lots of happy followers."

The bottom line is that if the OP wants to actually improve the fidelity of her/his system, and assuming that better speakers are too expensive, then the obvious weak link in the electronics is that amp. Replacing a bad Class D unit that does not provide flat frequency response into a non-resistive load with an AB amp or a load-invariant Class D amp (e.g. Hypex UcD and Ncore, Icepower ASX2, Anaview) will result in a higher fidelity signal chain. I specifically recommended the Parasound Zamp because I know it to be a well-built and reliable device that offers high fidelity performance in a small package and is widely available both new and used. (I have three of them driven by AirPort Expresses in my home; whole lot cheaper than hard-wired zones with a central source!) But there are many other such devices I'm sure. Emotiva has an AB mini-amp that may be just fine, and new is cheaper than a new Zamp. Monitor Audio has a more expensive one that has AirPlay functionality built in. The NAD D3020 is more expensive but offers a subwoofer output and higher energy efficiency due to its Hypex amp module. (Hey, that one's a DAC, too!) Dayton has a smallish AB amp too, APA150 or something like that. But it has a fan and I've never used it so I don't know how aggressive said fan is.

The listener may, of course, prefer the midrange boost and rolled off highs of the lower-fidelity Tripath amp to the system powered by an objectively superior amp. Then obviously s/he should stick with the Tripath.

But if the OP just wants to buy a new shiny thing, then get a DAC or new wires or whatever. Sonically such a new shiny thing cannot offer actual audible improvement, but some people just like to buy pointless new shiny things and that's cool, too. As long as they're not deluding themselves into thinking they're doing anything but just buying a new shiny thing to buy a new shiny thing.

[apstoltz]

The NAD D 3020 is very interesting. I am not 100% stuck on the DTA-120....it performs well for what it is. On the DAC side I came across the HifimeDIY DAC 2 with the sabre chip to put into the mix of possibilities.