Tube-O-Lator is here!

Wayne1 · « **on:** 20 Feb 2003, 03:37 pm »

I received my shipment of Mr. Altmann's incredible resonnance dampening lacquer yesterday.

I have added the vials to my website:

Tube-O-Lator

The price will be $55.00 for a 0.5ml vial including shipping within the US.

I also am offering just a treatment of the ART DI/O digital board and audio op-amp for $40.00.

I will also make the offer, if you wish, to send me your DI/O, pay for the vial and return shipping of the DI/O, and I will apply the treatment and send you what is left in the vial.

nathanm · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 05:58 pm »

I have a question about this material; which breed of snake is the oil squeezed from? Python? Boa? Copperhead?

Ahh but seriously, it looks to be a bargain at only $416,350 per gallon! Does shipment arrive with a non-stopping, armed military escort?

I have a stock DIO myself and cannot get an adequate erection when listening to Norah Jones. Let's say I dabbed this magical IC salve on my circuits, would I hear a difference or are the regular mods more beneficial? What if I just put the DIO in another room so it didn't even hear any vibration from the speakers?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 06:29 pm »

Nathan,

I did have to agree with your scepticism.

I had a sample of this stuff for over a year before I finally thought to try it.

You have no need to use large quantities for it to affect the sound.

The vibration it dampens does not come from outside the chip. It is inside.

It is hard to fathom exactly how the lacquer works, but it DOES work.

For the best bang fo the buck, the treatment is the way to go.

I do feel that all of the mods make a useful contribution to improving the sound of the DI/O.

In the interest of "proving" THIS snake oil actually does something, Nathan, send me your stock DI/O and I will apply the treatment to it.
You can report back if your sexual dysfunction is any better

BTW, I just upgraded Marbles smART to MENSA and applied the treatment. I am sure he will be happy to let us know what he thinks sometime next week

bubba966 · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 07:00 pm »

What other applications might there be for this lacquer?

Say I wanted to improve my Elite DV-38A with this stuff. I only use it for DVD movies, so I'm not using the analog or DVD-A outs. Would it be helpfull on any of the video or digital circuits in the player?

Or would I be better off applying it to the DD/DTS/THX decoders & processors in my receiver?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 07:06 pm »

Bubba,

I really have no idea how it will affect video.

Mr. Altmann does not suggest that it be used in purely digital circuits. It seems to do the most good in analog circuits.

I would suggest that the best place for you to use it is on the D/A chips and the analog stages of your receiver.

I intend to apply it to my Lexicon DC-1 at some point fairly soon.

BTW your digital cable came back from Cryo on Tuesday and it is now on the Cable Cooker. I should ship it to you on Monday the 24th.

nathanm · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 07:20 pm »

Quote

In the interest of "proving" THIS snake oil actually does something, Nathan, send me your stock DI/O and I will apply the treatment to it.

For free or do I have to pay for the privledge?

The only way I'd do it is if I bought a 2nd stock DIO to compare it to. Otherwise all bets are off IMHO. A few weeks of auditory memory loss is more than enough to negate any experiment if you ask me. My theory is that the spending of money makes the ears more sensitive. Wishful thinking in its purest form.

So you're actually serious about this Wayne? I rub this juice on the ICs and it sounds better? You won't be mad if I audtion this goop and report back that I didn't hear a damn bit of difference?

Has anyone measured before and after results of the circuit's performance?

How can physical vibration of a component affect electron flow? Okay, I know that's a whole physics book worth of answers, but humor me, please! I can't fathom how the movement of the conductive elements can affect the electricity. What's vibrating on the inside of the chip?

P.S. Off-topic but I have to ask anyway: Does the tube\warmth dial still function with either of the DIO mods when you loop the SDPIF? I think it's bogus that that part of the circuit does jack squat when you're using the digital inputs. Kinda like that post where DVV described a piece of gear with a bunch of stuff that wasn't even connected. Granted, the Warmth dial does very little, but it's still nice to have as an amusement.

bubba966 · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 07:25 pm »

Would be interesting to see what it does with the video D/A chips in the player.

But I just picked the player up last Friday. So I don't want to void the warranty just yet.

And I've got 3 years of warranty left on the receiver. I'm definitely not touching that anytime soon.

It's something I'll think about for the video section of the player at a later point. Unless someone tries it before I do and finds it makes dramatic improvements to the picture quality. Then I might have to step up the schedule a bit...

And thanks for the update on the digital. Once I know how much $ I need to send you it'll be on it's way.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 07:55 pm »

Nathan,

I am offering the treatment to YOU for FREE. You pay shipping to me and I pay for it back to you.

There WILL be a difference as soon as the lacquer is applied.

As to what causes it, I do not know. Mr. Altmann does not know.

Here are his comments :"The mechanism behind the filtering abilities of this specifically designed lacquer is of electrical or electromechanical nature. A capacitor may build up between the chip surface and the package surface. Or there may be a very small high-frequency package vibration or resonance that is changed by the coating compound.

We are not able to provide an accurate description why the "Tube-o-lator" stuff actually works. Maybe some of you guys out there will solve this mystery and tell us."

I personally feel it is a package vibration that is causing the "harshness" that is removed when the lacquer is applied. There is lots of Audio Magic out there that no one really understands how it works. All I can say is that this particular bit of magic does work

As for the DI/O mods, I completely gut the A/D section and remove the tube, tube power supply, A/D chip and anything to do with the tube warmth. When I am done with it, it is "just" a D/A convertor. The digital out jack is removed as well.

nathanm · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 08:13 pm »

You're on Wayne!

Boy, I would love to see an ad blurb for this stuff:

"Tube-O-Lator! It's green stuff you put on integrated circuits to make them sound better! We don't know what it is or how it works; but one thing's for sure - we know it costs 55 bucks for half an eyedropper full! Pay up, suckas!"

And 55 bucks doesn't even get a WHOLE Q-tip swab! Sheesh! They cut the darn thing in half, those skinflints!

I kid I kid, but seriously I can understand the concept. Most discoveries started by guys trying things or things happening on accident and at the time they had no idea about the "why" of it. Having said that, I still believe it won't do jack shit.

I will order a new DIO and have it shipped to you. If upon getting it back and burning it in for 3 years straight (to sound it's best, obviously!) I decide that the Tube-O-Lator just isn't properly decreasing Norah Jones' vocal age characteristic, I will offer it up for sale to one lucky AC member; a one-of-a-kind stock DIO with Tube-O-Lator IC salve. Cripes, that's gotta be worth at LEAST 200 bucks right there.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Feb 2003, 10:09 pm »

Nathan,

E-mail me for the shipping address.

A stock DI/O WILL take a fair amount of time to break-in. The sound differences between a "burnt-in" DI/O and a new one will be readily apparent.

One thing you can do without waiting for the new unit to burn-in, is to swap the digital boards. That is what I did for the DAM listening session.

I cannot guarantee Norah Jones will decrease in age for you. After all, that was Tyson's fantasy

I will say the sound will be different

markC · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Feb 2003, 04:02 pm »

Well, there's proof in the pudding that the sqeaky wheel gets the grease eh Nathan?

nathanm · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Feb 2003, 10:28 pm »

I guess that unlike Dan Banquer markC isn't "bound and determined to become cliché free!"

Just kidding, Mark!

Hey, I wasn't looking for any 'grease', but all the same, it will give me great pleasure to call shenanigans on this 55 dollar drop of magic faerie dust.

But hey, if I can hear a meanginful, positive improvement I'll be more than happy to say so. Maybe somebody should tell ART about this stuff then, eh? But even so, there's no way I feel ANY liquid is worth that much money! Sheesh!

markC · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Feb 2003, 07:07 am »

Bring on the fairies and dust me at will! (as long as it's free).

ABEX · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 09:27 pm »

Not that I am in the mood to try it.Some had post a tweek using Super Glue to apply to the DAC Chip to presvent vibration I think.They said it worked for them,so there must be something going on there.

Is there a way of measuring the output to see what happens to it.If you use a square wave or something then it might show up.

Just a thought

KevinW · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

How can physical vibration of a component affect electron flow? Okay, I know that's a whole physics book worth of answers, but humor me, please! I can't fathom how the movement of the conductive elements can affect the electricity. What's vibrating on the inside of the chip?

Nathan,
You want the simple physics explanation?

Good thing I love physics.... Vibrations cause a micro-piezoelectric effect. Piezeoelectric means the conversion of mechanical energy into electric energy (and vis-versa). This can occur in any material, although the magnitude of the effect varies significantly.

So when a vibration gets converted to electrical energy in an audio circuit, this causes noise in the ciruit. Reducing this noise by dampening vibration creates an improvement in sound quality. It's as simple as that. Honestly, I don't know why people make such a big deal about vibrations...

KevinW · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 12:56 am »

Hey Wayne,
Here's an interesting experiment... try comparing the effect of the dampening compound vs a DIO that has blu-tack covering the same chips. I've used blu-tack to cover the clock oscillator in my cd players to a nice effect. I would suspect the effects are the same... dampening vibrations. The oil may work better if it causes a little compression when it dries. It may also have a much better mechanical connection to the chips.

eico1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 03:12 am »

Kevin, the mechanism you describe would be easy to measure, has it been done?

steve

KevinW · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 05:34 am »

eico1,
That is an interesting question....

By "easy to measure", do you mean it's easy to measure piezoelectricity? Or do you mean it is easy to measure the impact of piezoelectricity on audio components? If the former, yes I would suspect it is fairly easy to measure, and that the piezoelectric properties of most materials is known. Here's a cool summary of the effect, and the inventions that use it, such as micro-miniature microphones and quartz oscillators. http://www.thetartan.org/97/13/scienceandtechnology/2758.asp

If you mean that is easy to measure piezo-electricity's effect on audio equipment... well I can't say that should be very easy. I can't think of good proxy data that could be used for measurement in situ, as I think it is very hard to measure piezo-electricity directly on a macro-object. But my understanding doesn't go much deeper than that. I did find one group online that is studying the piezo-electric effect in semi-conductors. Perhaps one of them could give you a better answer....
http://www.physics.mq.edu.au/research/materials/piezoelectric.html

Anyway, at the very least, when you do a mod or tweak that is supposed to dampen vibration, then your ears can do the measuring. That's the most fun way to do it, I think!!

Also, what instrument is better at measuring audio performance than our ears? It's the best by a long margin.

eico1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 01:35 pm »

Well one way to test it is to turn up your volume really high and tap on your equipment and/or ic etc. If you don't hear any electrical noise, maybe what we hear with the compond is the effect of the components running hotter. Of course a crystal will be more prone to being disturbed by external vibration.

steve

KevinW · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 04:24 am »

Quote from: eico1

Well one way to test it is to turn up your volume really high and tap on your equipment and/or ic etc.
steve

Tried that this morning, and you know what it worked!! I rapped my CDP with my knuckle, and there was an instant cessation of all sound. A second later, the music came back on as if nothing had happened. If that's not proof... then what IS proof?

Haha, actually, I wonder if it would be that easy to hear. Let me know if you try the test you describe, on a component that doesn't just result in a mis-tracked laser.

Cheers,
Kevin