[EvanMcC]

Hello all,

Considering moving from unbalanced cables between my BP25 & 4BSST to balanced cables...was considering something inexpensive like Signal Cable - young family on a budget.

Currently using 7 year old Cardas unbalanced interconnects that retailed for about $120 CDN at the time of purchase.

Would this move be worthwhile do you think?

Thanks,

Evan
Ottawa, ON

[forkliftHIFI]

If my hardware was all already balanced I'd go ahead and buy the cables.  That said I'm not sure what magic is supposed to happen.  Lots of high end stuff is single ended.  Some "mid-fi" stuff has XLR.   

[RDavidson]

It would only really be worthwhile to give it a try if the circuitry is fully (dual differential) balanced. As you have Bryston gear, I think this is the case. Regarding mid-fi gear, just because XLR inputs-ouputs are available, doesn't mean the circuitry is balanced. The mfr is just providing the option, probably in case the amp is to be used in a studio or other pro setting where XLR use is common.

[forkliftHIFI]

FWIW I run a hypex nc400 which is fully balanced.  My preamp is single ended tube (dodd audio) and I use a conversion cable.  Nothing sticks out as me as something that would be fixed by going full balanced (very expensive for tube options).  Room treatments and a sub are my next purchases. 

[Chicago]

I have the exact same gear as you and I did notice a difference going to better cables.  I am not sure if it was because they were balanced or just a significant cable upgrade - probably some of both.  Bryston sells very nice balanced cables at a very reasonable price and they will custom build them to any length you want.  I also use their speaker cables.  Like their gear the cables are transparent and do not color the sound.

https://store.bryston.com

[PRELUDE]

You won't change any thing by doing this. The balanced interconnect was not design to improve the sound but to eliminate the RF noise on the long run wire. If you have everything on one rack, then it would be the waste of money but if your source like pre, cd player, turntable and other stuff are on the separate rack like mine is and far from the amp, then I would say it could be a good idea to go balanced.

[milford3]

Finally, finally someone gets it right about balanced and unbalanced cables.  Prelude, you are so CORRECT!  Balanced cables are used for long runs.  Short cable runs are unbalanced.  Balanced cables are used mostly for recording sites and concert halls. 

[asliarun]

You won't change any thing by doing this. The balanced interconnect was not design to improve the sound but to eliminate the RF noise on the long run wire. If you have everything on one rack, then it would be the waste of money but if your source like pre, cd player, turntable and other stuff are on the separate rack like mine is and far from the amp, then I would say it could be a good idea to go balanced.

A question: Is the gain level (in the same device) typically different for balanced vs unbalanced?

[RDavidson]

FWIW I run a hypex nc400 which is fully balanced.  My preamp is single ended tube (dodd audio) and I use a conversion cable.  Nothing sticks out as me as something that would be fixed by going full balanced (very expensive for tube options).  Room treatments and a sub are my next purchases.

You understand that you're gaining absolutely zero benefit with the conversion cable, right? As there's no such thing as quasi-balanced or half balanced or partially balanced, you'd be better off not complicating things and just running single ended the whole way. The only way balanced circuitry works is if the entire chain of components is balanced. Now, if your preamp was balanced but the amp isn't, a conversion cable or adapter could be used if you need the additional output voltage gain provided by the balanced output from the preamp. Rarely do you need this, unless maybe you have super long cable runs.

[RDavidson]

You won't change any thing by doing this. The balanced interconnect was not design to improve the sound but to eliminate the RF noise on the long run wire. If you have everything on one rack, then it would be the waste of money but if your source like pre, cd player, turntable and other stuff are on the separate rack like mine is and far from the amp, then I would say it could be a good idea to go balanced.

I generally agree, but I still think it is worth a try if you have a fully balanced system, just to see if you can hear a difference. It could be audible, depending on how much noise your system is picking up....which is going to be different for everyone's individual case.
The REAL expense is already paid for, ie the fully balanced circuitry. One need not spend a ton on balanced IC's, though they do tend to cost a little more than single ended cables of the same make/model.

[RDavidson]

A question: Is the gain level (in the same device) typically different for balanced vs unbalanced?

Yes, output voltage is usually much higher. In most cases I've seen, single ended outputs are 2V whereas balanced are 4V or 5V on the same device.

[barrows]

If you have truly balanced components, you are not getting all the performance you have paid for unless you run them via the balanced connections.  By all means, get a set of good quality balanced cables and enjoy the lowered distortion and noise levels which balanced componentry offers.
By running balanced you will hear more low level details, as the noise floor will drop, and this will also get you better soundstage depth (if your speaker positions allow for such).

[Lancelot]

 
Well, one reason ,IMO, regardless of the balanced or not debate, would be to swap out the Cardas cables. Your Cardas RCAs would likely be the least expensive in their line at the time and  all of the Cardas interconnects of that time ( especially at the lower end ) were coloured and  many, including me , found them rather warm and  lacking in transparency and detail.

It is important to note that they were purposely designed to sound that way . I used Cardas Quadlink and Cross interconnects with my Bryston pre and amp  in a misguided attempt to add more tonal colour to the sound.

New modestly priced balanced cables would likely be an improvement IMO. 

[redbook]

  Using my balanced circuits proved to be an overall sonic improvement.  I gained a  better sense of space as well as detail. I attribute this to the rejection of rf noise and what ever else is out there. I say  if you have balanced try them. You can still keep your open end connected and do a comparison . I use the  Bryston Van Damme silver  wires ... they are very reasonable in price and work extremely well.

[rmurray]

  I use these from Bryston  about 250$.... great performance

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

There are advantages and disadvantages to Balanced lines (much like most choices in life). 

Single Ended connections have 2 conductors - positive and ground, Balanced connections have 3 conductors - positive/negative and ground.

The advantage of a balanced line is you have twice the voltage swing on the line and some receiving circuits react well to that condition as well as reducing any noise picked up through RF interference on the cable. Cables are antennas and any electromagnetic energy striking the cable can be amplifier by your system as noise and distortion and in worst cases you will hear the Taxi driver communicating with his dispatch - LOL. The longer the cable the more potential you have of picking up this electrical interference.   

Balanced lines shunt this electrical interference to ground through a mechanism called 'common mode rejection' - which prevents the noise and distortion from being amplifier by your system.  This assumes that you are 'sending' as well as 'receiving' the signal through a properly designed balanced system.

The downside of balanced lines is you need 2 more amplifiers in the signal path - one to send and one to receive. It could be argued that 2 more amplifier circuits complicate the signal path.  Also the quality of those balanced circuits comes into question - you can use Transformers or IC's or Fully Discrete circuits to accomplish the balancing function. 

Bryston uses fully discrete balanced circuits as we feel this is the best way to reduce the negatives but still provide the advantages of balanced lines not being affected by the outside electrical contamination.  The world is becoming inundated with more and more of this electrical interference so I generally recommend to our customers to utilize balanced lines and circuits if you have them (assuming they are implemented with quality and accuracy)

Hope this helps.

james

[RDavidson]

Well said, James. And yes, I completely agree, our airwaves are even more contaminated than ever with all the wireless networking that is commonplace these days, in addition to the same old noise culprits we've had for decades. How much of this your system is subjected to can only be addressed on a case by case basis, so blanket statements for balanced or single ended, really make no sense at all.

[cab]

Simple matter to make your own balanced cables for not any real money and see what you think....

[PRELUDE]

Simple matter to make your own balanced cables for not any real money and see what you think....

Now we are talking about.

[JeffO]

Simple matter to make your own balanced cables for not any real money and see what you think....

Or just buy an inexpensive set from someone like Monoprice and see if it makes a difference.  I went this way and replaced a set of single ended Cardas cables with the balanced Monoprice between the SP3 and 9B amp and noticed a reduction in noise in my system.  I have a lot of digital stuff in my cabinet so it was a noticeable difference for me even for the short length I have, if you do not have much electronic equipment near your system YMMV.