[Koz123]

Hello everyone, first post here. My name is Anthony I live in nyc I'm into classic rock, jazz, metal ect. My dad passed years ago when I was 18 and I have all of his vinyl. I bought a pro-ject turntable a year ago and never got around to getting everything together. I was looking to get a vacuum amp for under $1,000 but having trouble finding a good one.

My question is what else do I need other then the turntable to get a good stereo setup? Amp, speakers, ect?

Which brands would you recommend on a budget?

Thanks every!

[JLM]

Welcome Anthony!

"Vacuum amp"?  Do you mean tube amp?  Many prefer tube amps, but aren't easy to find below $1,000.  Any quality amp with phono pre-amp is hard to find at this price.  Suggest you visit audiogon (the most popular site for individuals selling used audio gear).  Just to give you an idea, I use a $3,000 USD Prima Luna Dialogue Premium integrated amp (40 watts per channel, modern design, 2014 Stereophile Class A rated, phono pre-amp can be added).  And I'm a cheap bastard (the rest of Sterephile's class A list ranged up to $34,000 USD).

Don't buy an amp without having a speaker in mind (just one reason: inefficient speakers need more wattage).  And speaker preferences are very personal, their sound varies much more than any other component (because there are several different basic designs, they are mechanical, and they're used in varying situations).  Some only need a couple of watts (but tend to cost more) while others need hundreds of watts.  Some sound better with old school tube amps, others work better with solid state.  Recommend shopping speakers first.

So, what's your budget?  what's your audio tastes (detail, deep bass, full bass, imaging, a thousand more attributes)?  would neighbors be a concern?  what is your room like (dimensions, furnishings, windows)?  you're in NYC, what have you heard that you like and consider "good"?  Irregardless of what the experts say, this will all be done for your enjoyment, so in the end it's your opinion that matters most.  You're in an ideal setting to shop around and listen to lots of gear (recommend you limit serious auditions to 3 or 4 per day, so you can really remember what you've heard).

Recommend starting out by training your ears regarding music and audio so you have a good idea of what sort of sound you're after.

Some would recommend thousands in accessories (stands, special equipment feet, interconnects, speaker cables, room treatments, etc.).  But if you visit the Cheap and Cheerful circle you'll get priceless advice.  I use a $30 USD Ikea nightstand for an equipment rack, several low cost (by audiophile standards) vendors sell interconnects/speaker cable, and the rest can come later (if ever).

As far as brands go, there are hundreds of good ones, thousands of poor ones, and a few bad ones.  If you stick with ones here at Audio Circle or heavily reviewed/advertised (which will cost more) you should be on the safe side.

[richidoo]

Hi Anthony, welcome to AudioCircle!

All turntables need a phono preamp because the phono cartridge makes a very low voltage signal, which needs to be amplified even before putting into a normal speaker amplifier.

Checkout Craigslist for stereo receivers with a built in phono preamp. Ask friends and relatives if they have stereo equipment they want to get rid of. There is tons of it out there collecting dust. I got a free TT from a neighbor, a free Technics 40W receiver from a friend, free speakers, free sony HT receiver, etc. You can often lowball a craigslist ad, since they just want to get rid of it. Nicer stuff will not lowball, but the prices are pretty low. Feel free to ask for advice here on AC about used gear you are considering.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/ela?query=stereo+receiver

If your receiver doesn't have a phono preamp built in, then you can buy a new, inexpensive phono preamp like these: http://www.phonopreamps.com/

As for vacuum tube amps, they are expensive because they use a high voltage power supply which is more expensive than the power supply used in transistor amps. Also, a tube amplifier needs a transformer to covert its high voltage output to high current output which is what speakers need. Transistors make high current without a transformer. Tubes do sound nice, but when you're on a budget transistor (aka solid state) amplifiers offer a better value, imo. Under $1000, solid state amps will usually sound better. Good tube amps start above $2000, imo. The one JLM recommended is a very good one, that's about as low price as I would recommend. If you go lower then some undesirable compromises start appearing. You can find some cheap stuff on Ebay. You can look here on Audiocircle in the Trading Post circle for used amplifiers. You can also look on usaudiomart.com and audiogon.com for used high end electronics, but on a lower budget you'll be looking for good "mid-fi" equipment which you can find locally on craigslist. Denon, Technics, Onkyo, Sony, etc. There are many stereo receivers with built in phono preamp sitting in people's closets waiting for a new home.

Pioneer makes some very good budget speakers. These are designed by Andrew Jones, who is in charge of Pioneers top speaker line, called TAD. These have a lot of good reviews from audiophiles. I think they are a good value for the money.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-FS52-LR-Designed-standing-Loudspeaker/dp/B008NCD2S4
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Home/Andrew%20SP-FS52Single%20Sheet.pdf
The bookshelf speakers are priced per pair. The floorstanding speakers are priced each. If you can afford the floorstanders, they have an extra woofer and they will give you noticeably better bass. You could add a subwoofer later if you want even more bass.   You might also check amazon warehouse for returns being sold cheap.

These have a sensitivity rating of 87dB/W/m. They are power rated for 130W. I would recommend using an amp that is minimum 50W, and 100W would be better if you want to play loudly (who doesn't?!) If you can only find a 40W receiver on your budget, then get it, it will work fine. You will hear it distort a little as you turn it up. Just don't play the speakers with audible distortion and the speakers will be safe. If you hear distortion, you are stressing the tweeters. If you just crank it up on a low powered amp, you will damage the speakers and/or amps. It is counterintuitive, but high powered amps are safer because they won't distort. They can still overheat a tweeter by playing too loud, but 130W is a very high rating.  My speakers are 86dB sensitivity, and I can play music very comfortably on a quality 15W amp, but it starts to distort when it gets loud.

Eventually you can upgrade all this stuff. But the important thing in the beginning is to get it playing so you can listen to music. Good luck in your shopping!
Rich

[sfox7076]

I have an AVA Ultimate 70 in Brooklyn that I will be selling for $1000.  That said, you will need a preamp and speakers after that.  The amp is an EL34 based amp.  It can be seen here:  http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=171&Itemid=172  (it was $1000 plus a good chassis (with transformers), new jacks, binding posts, etc).  Mine is made with a newer chassis that AVA had made and all new parts (except transformers), so it isn't rusted out or the like.  I will include the stock tubes.  I also have some really amazing Mullard EL34 xf2s that I use with it, but those would put you over budget.  You won't really find a good tube amp for around that price anymore.  Let me know if you are interested.  I planned on posting it next week (when I had time to photograph it).

For good budget speakers, but these:  http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

[SteveS]

Anthony,
Have a look here, great sounding products in kit form
http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Home.html

[Koz123]

Thanks for all the input guys! So much information my head is spinning haha. It sounds like a tube amp is too expensive right now so I'll have to go with something good for less ( around 4-600 ). I am in nyc so space is limited so standing speakers might not be a option. I will be playing mostly older classic rock.

[sfox7076]

A good all in one solution might be the PS Audio Sprout.  It seems to be getting good reviews.

[Blackmore]

If you just want to get started spinning and enjoying vinyl, you might look at new integrated amps from Cambridge, Marantz and Yamaha.  Surf over to Crutchfield to see their offerings.  Be sure to double check which models have phono sections. Not every one does.  I have never heard any of these, but the Marantz has had some good reviews.  These offer enough watts for NYC dwellers, new factory warranties, remote control, Bluetooth on some models.  The Yamahas look very vintage if you like that. Prices for any of these integrated amps start around $350 and some or most are surely available in NYC so you can actually see them in action.  At that price, you can easily afford either the Pioneers or the upgraded ones mentioned by Philharmonia and stay under $1,000 total.  Also some of these amps have tone controls which might help out a few classic rock albums. 

If you wanted to have a little something out of the ordinary, how about checking into the PS Audio Sprout? Good call, sfox  All of those things wrapped into one box, and you'll have a unique product most people haven't heard of.  Cool to be on the cutting edge?  Don't know if they're shipping yet, but seemed to get good first impressions at the latest audio shows.  Somewhere in the $800 range.

Finally, if you want a taste of some tube but not the wonderful full monty of the AVA Ultimate 70 (great amp), there's a used Rogue Sphinx on USAudiomart right now.  A guy in California is selling one with remote for your original price of $1,000.  It has a great phono section, remote and more than enough power to get you evicted. Tubes are used in the preamp section, but power is from digital boards from Hypex.  Stereophile reviewed it a few months back. 

Good luck with the hunt and have fun. Spinning your dad's vinyl will bring back some great memories along with the great tunes.  Keep us posted.

[fsdaron]

Check out the Musical Paradise MP301 III deluxe integrated tube amp. 6.5 wpc. $329. I have it and it's a very nice tube integrated.

[richidoo]

I am in nyc so space is limited so standing speakers might not be a option.

Pioneer also makes a bookshelf version of that speaker, on the same Amazon page. $126/pair, delivered, new, warranty, amazon return privilege. Good reviews, etc.  A friend of mine bought a pair of those, he is in your same situation, just getting into vinyl on a budget. He likes the speakers. I've not heard them myself.
 
If you're in a small space you won't play very loud so 40W will be enough. MANY used stereo receivers like that available locally, with phono amp for about $50.

[bladesmith]

If you can get a pair of HIGH efficiency speakers, do it. It will open up more options for using small/med or large amps.

good luck..

[randytsuch]

Out of the box suggestion.

If I was living in an apartment, I would consider headphones.  You can get a good headphone system on your budget, and they will sound very different from the low budget stuff.

Headphones are a different experience from speakers.

Good luck
Randy

[Koz123]

This is the turn table I have. Someone I know is running this setup. What's your thoughts?

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable - $399.00


NAD C315BEE amplifier - $379.99


NAD PP-2 Phono Preamplifier - $149


USHER S520 - $399.00
[/QUOTE]

[asliarun]

Thanks for all the input guys! So much information my head is spinning haha. It sounds like a tube amp is too expensive right now so I'll have to go with something good for less ( around 4-600 ). I am in nyc so space is limited so standing speakers might not be a option. I will be playing mostly older classic rock.

Check out the thread I started in the Cheap and Cheerful circle on this forum. It was on similar lines - I was looking for decent audio quality options in a small apartment. Specifically, I wanted wall mounted speakers. There are some good suggestions by forum members.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130087.0

One nice thing about active speakers is that you get the amp integrated with the speaker - which means you can put all your money on buying the best possible speaker. Plus, you don't have to get into the hassle of pairing the right amp with the right speaker. Another thing I like about active speakers is that they (mostly studio monitors) are very well built and often will have dedicated amps for each driver in the speaker. For a small apartment, I feel this is a good compromise - especially if you don't even want the speaker to take up floor space. The amp will also have to go somewhere and many of these amps (specifically tubes) will run hot so you will need adequate breathing room in the media cabinet. Of course, the drawback is that you can't swap out the amp for another one - which is why I guess they are not so popular with many audiophiles who like to keep upgrading their system and swapping components.

Edit: I've heard a lot of nice things about the Usher S-520. It is not very efficient but interestingly the impedance doesn't dip much, and I know several people who have driven this with a tiny Class T amp (Topping TP20) and were pleased with the sound. Plus, it is front ported so you can bolt it to the wall - although that is always a bad placement for most speakers. But it saves space.

[roscoeiii]

This is the turn table I have. Someone I know is running this setup. What's your thoughts?

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable - $399.00


NAD C315BEE amplifier - $379.99


NAD PP-2 Phono Preamplifier - $149


USHER S520 - $399.00

I think that looks like a very reasonable set-up. I haven't heard those speakers, and more than anything, I'd recommend listening to speakers before you buy them. Used would also a be a great option for most bang for your buck, and since you are in NYC you will have a lot of options. Speakers in particular (due to shipping weight for one thing) can be gotten for excellent prices used.

Another rec I'd have is that if you buy new that you buy from a dealer that will let you audition the gear in your own space (again, especially important for speakers). This could be a local dealer, or you could buy from an online retailer with a good return policy. Music Direct, for example has a 30 day return policy and you just pay shipping. Audio Advisor is another online retailer with a similar policy. Be sure to check both of their clearance/demo/used pages, because you can often find returned gear at a considerable discount (and you still get the 30-day return option on that gear in the case of Music Direct, not sure about Audio Advisor). Chris at Music Direct is a great vinyl guy, and he may be another good source of recommendations about options in your price range. You will also find no shortage of opinions on AudioCircle either.

Welcome to AC. This forum should be able to steer you to some excellent sounding gear!

[RDavidson]

That's a nice little setup. Compact. Looks nice. Good components. I think the tone controls can be very useful for a small setup, especially where space, budget, and listening volumes (relatively low in an apartment) are of concern too. I bet it sounds very nice.

You might look at something like a Rotel integrated. Last I knew, they have a built in phono stage that is quite good, so that saves you another box and wires. Rotel gear has a bit more lively character than NAD in general. This can balance out very nicely with the warmth of vinyl. There are so many nice speakers to choose from and so many flavors. That's kind of a tough thing to really make recommendations. As speakers are really quite a personal choice, I would shop local dealers for them, so you can take home and audition, or go internet direct.

[roscoeiii]

That's a nice little setup. Compact. Looks nice. Good components. I think the tone controls can be very useful for a small setup, especially where space, budget, and listening volumes (relatively low in an apartment) are of concern too. I bet it sounds very nice.

You might look at something like a Rotel integrated. Last I knew, they have a built in phono stage that is quite good, so that saves you another box and wires. Rotel gear has a bit more lively character than NAD in general. This can balance out very nicely with the warmth of vinyl. There are so many nice speakers to choose from and so many flavors. That's kind of a tough thing to really make recommendations. As speakers are really quite a personal choice, I would shop local dealers for them, so you can take home and audition, or go internet direct.

A good point. Internet direct is a great option, where you get a great speaker without the dealer markup. I'll let others recommend some internet direct options. Emotiva is one that comes to mind. Many of these also have a good return policy.

And the other thing worth mentioning is that you are probably better off not spreading your money around equally to all components. Speakers make the biggest difference!!! So I'd spend a good deal more on them (maybe 50% of your total budget, though that may be touch at your price points), to get the biggest bang for your buck.

[RDavidson]

A good point. Internet direct is a great option, where you get a great speaker without the dealer markup. I'll let others recommend some internet direct options. Emotiva is one that comes to mind. Many of these also have a good return policy.

And the other thing worth mentioning is that you are probably better off not spreading your money around equally to all components. Speakers make the biggest difference!!! So I'd spend a good deal more on them (maybe 50% of your total budget, though that may be touch at your price points), to get the biggest bang for your buck.

A few other net directs : Aperion has been at it a long time. SVS is another great choice and I can personally vouch for their excellent customer service. NHT is another who has been around a long time in one form or another. They recently relaunched the Super 1, which was a fan favorite back in the 90's. There's Ascend Acoustics who has a model or two in your price range. HSU Research makes a set of nice horn loaded speakers. A lot of choices. A lot of reading for you to do.

[JLM]

I own a pair of the original Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's ($350/pair stand-mount 2-ways) and love them.  Finish is definitely 2nd class, but content value, sound quality, and imaging are extreme.

Had a Rotel receiver that had lackluster sound, poor FM reception, and died shortly after the warrantee expired.  My NAD receiver (and even a really cheap Sony receiver) performed and held up better.

Note that my experiences with the Rotel and NAD are from years ago.  Still own the CBM-170's and Sony receiver, but even those were purchased years ago, so all this product advice is pretty out of date.

Most would advice spending roughly equal amounts for integrated amp and speakers.

Another vote for higher efficiency speakers.

And another vote for active speakers.  The down side is the need to plug them into power, you'd still need a phone pre-amp, and most only have a single input.  But they have substantial advantages over passive designs typically found for home use (more dynamic, very flat frequency response, and unreal deep/full bass).  Careful to avoid the dry/fatiguing sound that typical work horse studio monitors provide.  Suggest looking at Adam F5 ($500/pair, F3= = 50 Hz, highly resolving, refined, and non-fatiguing).  Powered speakers also need a power plug and eliminate the need for pre/power amp, but represent a middle step between passive and active designs.  Suggest  Vanatoo (they only have one model, $500/pair, F3 = 49 Hz, has built-in DAC).

[roscoeiii]

Most would advice spending roughly equal amounts for integrated amp and speakers.

I'm not so sure about that. And I'd be curious to hear other folks' thoughts on how they'd allocate their budget to different parts of a system. I'd probably think about paying 2x more on my speakers than an integrated amp.  Though that might be a bit much in these price ranges.