[mlundy57]

When using both solid state and tube components which is more important for getting the tube sound,the preamp or the power amp?

I use my system for both 2 channel music and multichannel movies. The solid state AVR I am using has preamp outputs. I have the preamp outputs for the left and right main channels connected to tube amplifiers. The AVR's internal amplifier powers the other channels. For movies, the audio is connected to the AVR via HDMI but for music the source is connected to the AVR via analog inputs. Also, the AVR has an analog bypass mode which keeps the signal in the analog domain (no DSP processing) as it passes through the AVR. I use this mode when listening to the music source.

I don't know how much I'm missing by using a solid state preamp instead of a tube preamp.

Mike

[bladesmith]

I like a tube preamp/SS amp setup. 

[G Georgopoulos]

I like a tube preamp/SS amp setup. 

I know why.You get more power with that configuration..

[Captainhemo]

It's a tough question Mike,  I've seenbit discussed over in the tube-0-phile circle a few times and  answers seem to bary among differnt users and with different equipment.  Some say you'll never get the "tubey" sound without a tube amp section  while others  say they like to use tube pre's with  SS amps like bladesmith mentions above.
Others say it  really can vary depending on the specific equipment, and quality of that equipment,  you are using.

Wasn't that  tube amp you picked up an integrated ?  Have you tried using  as both a tube  amp section  and as a tube pre section (use dummy loads)   passing to the AVR  when in  analog mode ?   Might be some interesting comparisons there

-jay

[G Georgopoulos]

Hi Again

my personal experience is to use a tube power amplifier because they produce more distortion than tube preamps...

cheers

[maxboy00]

I also prefer the tubed PA/S'S amp configuration.

[mlundy57]

Thanks everybody. I don't have any problem with the tube amps producing enough power on the main channels to satisfy me.

Jay, yes the tube amp is integrated but if I use it's preamp and use it to power the mains for both music and movies I end up with two volume controls, one for the main channels and a different one (in the AVR) for the center, surround and sub channels. As you might imagine, this doesn't work very well.

Mike

[Early B.]

Tube or solid state pre and/or amp-- it doesn't matter. Your 2-channel listening will be greatly compromised as long as you have an AVR in the mix.

[bladesmith]

You could add a tube buffer, btwn music source and amp.  A 6SN7 buffer would expand the sound stage.
(If I understand your setup correctly.)

[Ericus Rex]

I've had lots of combinations of tubed pres and both tubed and ss amps and have come to firmly believe that most of that tube sound is in the power tubes.  Tubed pres into ss amps only gets you a little bit there.

[RDavidson]

Hard to say. Not sure I understand your question about not being sure how much you're missing with a solid state versus a tube preamp. It's not all that simple. There are pretty awesome tube and solid state preamps out there, and I personally don't feel one is better than the other. It's more a matter of preference. Personally, I like preamps to just get out of the way as much as possible and serve as volume adjustment only. If I want a certain type of sound, I try to get that balance between amp and speakers right. Here's why. If your front end gear has a certain sound (intentionally not neutral), then it will affect everything downstream. If everything downstream is being affected, then how can one really know what their amp and speakers truly sound like? I'm not saying my approach is THE BEST. Just saying this is my perspective on "knowing what you're missing / not missing."

[jimdgoulding]

I've had lots of combinations of tubed pres and both tubed and ss amps and have come to firmly believe that most of that tube sound is in the power tubes.  Tubed pres into ss amps only gets you a little bit there.

Think that's right, too.

[mlundy57]

I've had lots of combinations of tubed pres and both tubed and ss amps and have come to firmly believe that most of that tube sound is in the power tubes.  Tubed pres into ss amps only gets you a little bit there.

That makes a lot of sense come to think about it since the amp sounds different with different power tubes.

This is the first tube amp I have ever owned so I don't know much about them.

Mike

[Captainhemo]

Jay, yes the tube amp is integrated but if I use it's preamp and use it to power the mains for both music and movies I end up with two volume controls, one for the main channels and a different one (in the AVR) for the center, surround and sub channels. As you might imagine, this doesn't work very well.

Mike

Yeah, I  get that.... you  were saying you didn't know how much you were "missing" by using a SS pre (AVR).  I was just suggesting you do a serious comparison with the AVR as pre and without it just using the the integrated tube amp.  That should give you  a pretty good idea of how much the AVR is effecting the sound especially in 2 ch audio
Does your integrated tube amp  have a "HT bypass"  to bypass the pre amp section or are you  just using one of the  reg inputs  and also going through the  tube pre section of your integrated ?
Why not  skip the AVR for your music source and just connect direct to a pair  of the integrated tube amps inputs ?

-jay

[SoCalWJS]

I remember reading an article many years ago (can't remember where) addressing this very question. I don't recall the details either, but the conclusion was that Tube Pre and SS amp was the way to go. It had to do with the amount of tube sound ("distortion") each one added to the "tube sound". The author believed that a tube amp was too much of that sound.

Don't think I necessarily agree with his opinion, but it influenced me enough that when the time came, I went tube pre first and intended to stay SS amp and see how I liked it, but I still drool over the thought of some nice big tube mono blocks ( Gary and Hugh!).

I would guess it depends on how much of that magic tube sound you were after.

A little = Tube Pre and SS Amp
More = SS Pre and Tube Amp
Max = Tubes everywhere

[mlundy57]

Yeah, I  get that.... you  were saying you didn't know how much you were "missing" by using a SS pre (AVR).  I was just suggesting you do a serious comparison with the AVR as pre and without it just using the the integrated tube amp.  That should give you  a pretty good idea of how much the AVR is effecting the sound especially in 2 ch audio
Does your integrated tube amp  have a "HT bypass"  to bypass the pre amp section or are you  just using one of the  reg inputs  and also going through the  tube pre section of your integrated ?
Why not  skip the AVR for your music source and just connect direct to a pair  of the integrated tube amps inputs ?

-jay

Jay I can do an all of one vs all of the other for a test but for actual use I would be back in the two amps/one pair of speakers issue. 

I remember reading an article many years ago (can't remember where) addressing this very question. I don't recall the details either, but the conclusion was that Tube Pre and SS amp was the way to go. It had to do with the amount of tube sound ("distortion") each one added to the "tube sound". The author believed that a tube amp was too much of that sound.

Don't think I necessarily agree with his opinion, but it influenced me enough that when the time came, I went tube pre first and intended to stay SS amp and see how I liked it, but I still drool over the thought of some nice big tube mono blocks ( Gary and Hugh!).

I would guess it depends on how much of that magic tube sound you were after.

A little = Tube Pre and SS Amp
More = SS Pre and Tube Amp
Max = Tubes everywhere

I guess "More" is the best I will be able to do. I have yet to see a multichannel tube pre and if there is such a thing would probably have to mortgage the house to get it. Don't think the wife would go along with that 

[opnly bafld]

I have yet to see a multichannel tube pre and if there is such a thing would probably have to mortgage the house to get it.

$2995.00
http://www.decware.com/newsite/ULTRA.html

[RDavidson]

There's a rare Bent Audio Tap X on Audiogon now. Though it isn't the balanced version, it is still among the VERY VERY best money can buy.....but in this case (only) $1600. Not bad all things considered. No, I'm not the seller.

[bladesmith]

I have had better luck controlling my low end frequencies,  using a SS amplifier.  That's the main reason I like a tube/pre and SS amplifier setup..

[mlundy57]

$2995.00
http://www.decware.com/newsite/ULTRA.html

That's interesting, expensive but not excessively so.