[BobM]

I think that there are varying levels of improvement to be had by upgrading different components. Caps definitely have their own personality and different people swear by different brands and models. However, the different types and models have different uses, so just putting in "Black Gates" of any model in a particular location is not necessarily a wise choice. Sonically or wallet-wise.

Op amps follow the same logic. each has its own character and specifications. I'm not really qualified to speculate about which model would be the best replacement, that's one of the reasons I went with the Swenson mod here - its just easier. Op amps can definitely give you more punch (PRAT) but it's hard to get that, and the musicality, and the sweetness, and the clarity all together. If that was easy then everyone would be doing it in their products.

As for resistors, you could certainly swap them out if you are a completest, but I doubt that the swap would be audible.

Good luck,
Bob

[JoshK]

... so just putting in "Black Gates" of any model in a particular location is not necessarily a wise choice. Sonically or wallet-wise....

That is what we refer to as "throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks".  

[rhale64]

That is what I thought. So I guess I shouldnt get the other series of BlackGates. So I guess we are just sol when it comes to the 47uf 16v caps. I am wondering if we went with a 100 uf 16v like you did but in a blackgate type n or nx, instead of your panasonics, if that would give more sense of speed, or as you call it (PRAT). I have not heard any of these caps so I cant say. I figured you more technically inclined modders might be able to help. Or maybe refer me to another substitute. Yes I guess cap swapping is all like throwing shit against the wall. You could mod the crap out of it and in the end not like the sound. That is why I posted in my post what I like in my music.

   So Josh and Bob are you saying that just because it meets the capacitance value and the voltage value doesnt mean it will work? Or just that it might not sound good? Again I am a newb so I am asking to further my knowledge not to be a smart***

[BobM]

Oh it will work if the values are identical, or close. But your really trying to improve it, so the correct type for the application is critical. You may want to look at the Nichicon's as a possible replacement for Black Gates. Probably the Nichicon KZ's (I would guess). Michael Percy carries them, as do a few others.

It's pretty intuitive to up the capacitance in the power supply caps, but I would try to keep the original values int he analogue circuitry, especially around the chips. Some of these are critical for filtering values and such. So stay with 47uF 16V and don't automatically think bigger is better here (it may actually slow down the speed and make things a bit sluggish).

Enjoy,
Bob

[goldlizsts]

I finally was trying to do the biggest cap in the power supply section, only to find that the new cap is really too huge to fit into the old 82uf 400V cap's position.  I was surprised that the 180uf 400V was recommended in the first place.  I tried to lay it sideways also, but it is just too fat.  Any alternatives?  Perhaps there's a brand that has one that fits (doubt it).  Or a smaller value that will give me close to abbout 2.1 cm (about 7/8") diameter, and 2.5 cm height (about 1").  Thanks again.

[goldlizsts]

I ran into a problem, a big one.  The recommended replacement for the 82uf 400V cap, the 180uf 400V.   I posted a message earlier that it doesn't fit at all (the part bought from Digikey.com).  What's the alternative?  Would something like 180uf 50V do the job?  In this case, size does matter, since the 180uf 400V is too huge to fit.  I found that out when I experimented with the unit's cover.  It won't fit no matter how I'd sit the cap.

[BobM]

Did you get the part that I cited in the original parts list? 180uF 400V (P6849-ND) Or did you buy a different brand with a different size specification?

The recommended one fits just fine sitting straight up, not on its side. It sits on top of another component (I don't remember if it was a resistor or a diode) but a little Moretite underneath works really well. I don't remember if the hole orientation was the same or if I needed to bend one of the legs to fit, but fit it did.

Not sure why you are having a problem. I haven't heard this before from anyone else.

Bob

[goldlizsts]

Hi,

It's the same part, from Digikey.com.  The part does not fit in the slot in the Samsung HD 841 based on my estimate.  The original part has a 7/8" diameter, while the replacement cap has  a diameter of more than 1", like 1-1/8" or 1-1/4".  Height wise it's taller than the original part too.  I tried it either way.  Even laying it down, the cover will not close.  That's why I thought may be you worked with the Hitachi, which may be more spacious?

Sam

[goldlizsts]

I quoted the wrong name, sorry.  It should be Toshiba 4960 I thought you used, and Samsung HD 841 being the one I am using.  If it worked for you, the only reason from my perspective is that the Toshiba 4960 doesn't use the same board, as the board it uses is roomier.  And, may be the Toshiba has more vertical space even.  I was prepared to extend the leg of the new cap, until I saw that the new 180uf 400V is too big for the case (ceiling) to be put back without it being in the way.

[BobM]

Sounds like the Samsung case is tighter than the Toshiba's. You may be the first to mod a Samsung unit and run into this problem. Sorry about that, but I unfortunately had no way of knowing the height restrictions on the Samsung unit and no one else has reported a problem that I know of. Something still sounds wrong to me.

Is it a close call or is it a significant size issue? This cap really isn't that tall. You can find the height size on the  180uF 400V (P6849-ND) right on the Digikey site (25mm I believe). I don't see any others that are necessarily shorter than the one specified. Are you sure they sent you the correct part #, because some of the others are a bit bigger.

What about the other cap sizes, do they look like they'll fit OK?

Bob

[goldlizsts]

Yes, Bob,

The 25mm is the right height of the digitkey cap.  I mean, the rating is correct, 180uf 400V, so Digikey can't have another one.  I took the measurements again and again.  The replacement cap is indeed that tall.  Can't even say that it's a close call in the Samsung that I can just force it a little.  A friend was recommending 180uf say 50V.  Would that be just as good?  Same capacitance.  This is based on the theory that it's a DVD player, the voltage rating is not that critical, as it probably doesn't need a high voltage to drive it?  Thanks.

I suspect the guy who wrote that mod article used the Toshiba 4960, and didn't consider the Samsung when he recommended that biggest cap.

Sam

[JoshK]

This is a great thread Bob!  I don't know if it fits better in the Lab or here but either way, great thread.

I will use some of your ideas when I mod my Pioneer 578a.  I chose the Pioneer because it has been "hacked" to output hi-res digital from SACD and DVD-A discs.  I acquired all but one part to make it happen, which Oehlich is revising currently.  

The same principals should apply though.  I especially like your mortite tweak.  Very cheap and clever!

[BobM]

Hey Josh,

Did you ever re-write those digital filtering algorythms that you were speaking about? How did they come out? Is this part of the "hi-rez hack" that you were speaking about?

I've basically got digital on the back burner these days, for 2 reasons:

1 - waiting on some people to construct, then report on the new Hagerman DAC that should be out sometime this month or next. Sounds like something I've gotta try (already have a Hagerman Coronet phono stage and it's truly awesome)

2 - got a new Moerch DP6 tonearmarm using the royalty from the IEEE article that was spawned from this thread. (Yes gentleman, sometimes DIY and a little bit of writing ability does pay-off). So I'm "vinyl-ing".

Enjoy,
Bob

[JoshK]

Bob,

Not sure what digital algorithms I was droning on about that you are referring to, but this digital hi-rez hack is not my work, it is Oehlich's on diyaudio.  I'm not that clever. Do a search on hi-res digital output there if you are interested.

I am basically going to persue that project so that I can "rip" my SACDs to my file server too.  My DEQX can accept up to 24/96, and SACD comes out at 24/88 PCM from this hack.

[posternutbag2000]

FYI: I modded my Samsung 841 and when it came to the big power supply cap, I was able to semi bend the leads to come real close to fitting in the previous holes.  I then soldered one of the legs in and soldered a small piece of wire from the other leg to the remaining hole.  Moretite all around and its worked like a charm.  No problems and I've used it regularly for a few months now...

next up is replacing the power cord...If I want to replace the stock power cord with a 3-prong cord, where do I sodler the ground wire?  to the chassis?  thanks for any help..

Scott

[BobM]

I would actually just use the 2  wires on the power cord and forget the 3rd. Unless you want to use the 3rd for a shield, then leaving it disconnected at the component end, and connected at the outlet end is the way to go.

I tried this and found little or no difference. However, the connection points on the board are very fragile and a beefy power cord was definitely NOT the way to go. I went back to the 2 prong cord and played with the orientation/polarity (yes, it did make a difference).

Enjoy,
Bob

[goldlizsts]

The bad penny's back.  

I have searched, and found a cap of the "size" same as the replaced 82uf/400V, 180uf/250V though.  the dimensions are 22mm diameter, 25mm height, perfect fit for the Samsung HD841 slot for the 82uf/400V cap.  Question - Would 250V work?  Or rather would it work well?  My guess is the voltage is more of how much headroom (reserve) you'd need, assuming in the digital playback unit, it does not require too much voltage.  Then, I'm an amateur, I must say.  400V and 250V could mean big difference in performance, everything else being equal (same 180uf).  Please, any expert advice is appreciated.

[BobM]

The specification on part PER10 is 82uF 400V. You should ALWAYS keep the voltage specification the same or larger when replacing capacitors. This is the 1st main cap in the power supply section. I'm sure it's a bit overspec'ed voltage wise to deal with surges and such.

Will 250V work - maybe. Would I try it in my home - definitely not. Do so at your own risk.

I'm still confused as to why your unit won't fit the 180uF 400V cap. Another poster above (posternutbag2000) had no trouble in his HD841. Something still sounds wrong - either you have the wrong part or are not seating the cap right.

Are there any parts that would be under the cap, like a diode or a resistor, making it sit up higher? If there are then you may be able to relocate those under the board and get the cap down onto the board itself (thereby decreasing the height).

Bob

[goldlizsts]

Bob,

Thanks.  I got the part, as rated, from Digikey.com.  Height-wise, both the old and new are same 25mm, but diameter-wise, the old is 22mm, while the one from Digikey.com is 35mm, way too fat.  I will check in Digikey to see if they have the same spec part, but different size.  I doubt it.  I don't know how the other guy fit it into his, if his is a Samsung Hd841.  Yes, there is a diode next to the cap spot.  Probably, making it sit on top of the diode may be OK, but horizontally, it just won't go in the space there.

Thanks.

Sam

[BobM]

No kidding! The width is different on every single capacitor replacement I recommended. Of course it doesn't fit into the allotted spot. That's why I kept saying "seat it on top of the other diode/resistor/whatever".

Sorry - perhaps I wasn't clear. These replacement parts are BIGGER. You will have to use some imagination to fit them in. All of them. Some will sit kind of sideways. Others will sit straight up. Others will have to be staggered to get them all in.

You said the top wouldn't close - that's a height issue, not a width issue.

Maybe I had too much coffee, but this "problem" that is not a problem has really gone as far as I think it needs to.

Bob