[mikeeastman]

You would need 1 panel and a charge controller, the controller would be $35-40, the panel would be $90-200 depending on size of the battery and how much power the system uses. You would also want a backup charger for cloudy days, a Ctek or something similar. Some kind of mount for the roof or the ground or side of the house.

[ctviggen]

Our payback time is between 8-9 years, depending on certain assumptions of course (electricity rates rising at 4%, amount of solar produced, etc.).  Theoretically, that means we'll have another 12+ years of free electricity.  Unfortunately, the power output of solar cells also decreases over time. 

We invested in solar because we have a south-facing roof with an unobstructed view.  Also, the town was selected for a special program, so the installer had special pricing.  We ended up paying about $22,000. 

Our next investment in the house is insulation.  We're going to have the attic sealed and highly insulated (not using spray foam -- as I was afraid to use that), but using sealing of all holes through the attic, tons of insulation, etc.  We also plan to have the basement insulated to "seal" the building's envelope. although we may not be able to do that this year.  We're currently at 1273 gallons of oil for this heating season to heat this house, and that's too much.  We're looking to reduce that. 

Believe me, I think insulation is a great idea.  I would've done insulation first, but they selected our town for solar, and the prices I thought were good.  And we had saved more money for buying this house than I anticipated. 

I should say that I've also invested in LED bulbs.  Basically, the whole house is LED except for 5 ceiling fans (which use candelabra bulbs and neither my wife nor I can stand the light produced by the cheap candelabra bulbs). 

Another option the solar provides is that when our AC units go, we could switch to heat pumps and get some heat for the winters from there.  Assuming we make a surplus of electricity in the winter (and don't therefore have to pay for electricity for the heat pumps, since electricity here is so expensive), that'll also reduce our heating outlay.  Unfortunately, because we have to change our air handlers, too, this is an expensive upgrade. 

[thunderbrick]

Seal your attic from the rest of the house, NOT from the outside.  Vent it well to keep heat down in the summer and remove condensation year round.

In my first house 40 years ago we could never cool the second floor;  always too hot in summer.  I put two of those roof turbines in and it made the second floor much more comfortable.

[jermmd]

That's not a bad price fore that much solar, but I never heard of that brand of panels or inverter and I designed and installed solar system for over 20 yrs. So I would really check them out before buying.

Thanks. I can't really find much about the brand but I trust Costco.

Joe M.

[ctviggen]

Seal your attic from the rest of the house, NOT from the outside.  Vent it well to keep heat down in the summer and remove condensation year round.

In my first house 40 years ago we could never cool the second floor;  always too hot in summer.  I put two of those roof turbines in and it made the second floor much more comfortable.

I'm using a local "green" builder whose specialty is green homes (including super energy efficient homes) and retrofits of old houses.  The attic will be sealed from the inside of the house but not from the outside. 

As for ventilating the attic, that's a whole argument that could go on for days.  I put in a powered attic fan in my previous house, but I didn't have enough air intake and I sucked in air from the house.  That's bad, as your cool air is going into the attic. 

For this house, we'll be using "natural" ventilation (roof ridge and eave intakes) and a lot of sealing and insulation, so the house should be a lot more comfortable.  One of the biggest upgrades is that they're going to build an actual, highly insulated "room" for the air handler that's in the attic.  This alone should reduce heating and cooling costs. 

[jermmd]

We invested in solar because we have a south-facing roof with an unobstructed view.  Also, the town was selected for a special program, so the installer had special pricing.  We ended up paying about $22,000. 

Our next investment in the house is insulation.  We're going to have the attic sealed and highly insulated (not using spray foam -- as I was afraid to use that), but using sealing of all holes through the attic, tons of insulation, etc.  We also plan to have the basement insulated to "seal" the building's envelope. although we may not be able to do that this year.  We're currently at 1273 gallons of oil for this heating season to heat this house, and that's too much.  We're looking to reduce that. 

Believe me, I think insulation is a great idea.  I would've done insulation first, but they selected our town for solar, and the prices I thought were good.  And we had saved more money for buying this house than I anticipated.   

Bob,

You live pretty close by. Does Southbury have a solar program discount that you're aware of? Also, are you doing the insulation yourself or paying someone.

edit: I see you're using someone for the insulation.

Thanks,

Joe M.

[putz]

We average about 900 KWH per month for the year for electric with Central Air running all summer.

Gas bill is also pretty low for Heat, HW and Dryer. Less than $200 per winter months and $20-30 @month rest of the year.

Large house built in 1966.

We used NJ Clean Energy program a few years ago to heavily insulate the attic and basement and replace the boiler and hot water. Net cost was around $10k and that was covered by a 10 year 0% loan. Plus $1500 from the Feds on our tax return.

We also redid the upstairs windows but that did not do much to save energy. Insulation is the way to go for that

Setback thermostats and CFL bulbs in most fixtures. No second fridge in the basement.

My son bought a house a year ago with a huge solar array that was built by the prior owner in the backyard facing South. Way more panels than a rooftop system. He's paid $0.00 since moving in.

All over NJ I see solar panels going up in Parking Lots and front Lawns of Corporate and Public buildings. NJ has one of the highest amounts of solar production in the USA. There used to be state rebates for Solar but they seem to be gone now. Might be due to Gov Christie raiding the Clean Energy program of over $1 billion to balance the budget without "raising taxes".

[thunderbrick]

For this house, we'll be using "natural" ventilation (roof ridge and eave intakes) and a lot of sealing and insulation.

I agree with that 100%.  Just wanted to make sure I was reading right.   

[ctviggen]

Bob,

You live pretty close by. Does Southbury have a solar program discount that you're aware of? Also, are you doing the insulation yourself or paying someone.

edit: I see you're using someone for the insulation.

Thanks,

Joe M.

Hey Joe, the SolarizeCt program is selecting towns.  Then, there's some kind of bidding process for vendors where the SolarizeCt program selects a vendor for a town, and the vendor gets to do the whole town.

Here's the website:

http://solarizect.com/

I seem to remember that your house would be a candidate for solar (need a south facing roof, ideally, with not a lot of trees). 

For us, we're going to spend almost $6,000 this heating season for oil heat.  Yikes!!  I would've done insulation first, but they happened to select our town for solar. 

As for insulation, I got three different quotes so far.  Two of the quotes were from people who would spray foam the attic "roof" to create a sealed attic.  They would also spray foam the rim joist (the area where your house walls meet the foundation), and do a few other things. 

The third quote was from a green builder (builds green homes).  What he'd do is different.  He'd go into the attic and seal/insulate all possible air entry points between the second floor and the attic (stairs, recessed lights, etc.).  He'd build a "room" around the air handler.  We also have a closet that's basically in the attic.  It's either cold or hot in there.  There's also an access point to the attic in the closet.  He'd put in an air-tight door and insulate the outside of the closet.  Then, he wants to insulate basement walls and even the fireplace!  He'd also air seal any outlets/other boxes on the outside walls.  He'd then put in a ton of blown in insulation. 

We selected the green builder because I was concerned about spray foam.  They say if you don't perform spray foaming correctly, it smells and the only way to get it not to smell is to take it out.  See these for instance:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/spray-foam-jobs-lingering-odor-problems
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/green-building-news/lawsuits-name-makers-spray-foam-insulation
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/green-products-and-materials/14537/out-gassing-bad-stuff-spray-foam-insulation

There's also a potential problem with overheating of the shingles on your roof if you spray foam (since the spray foam is applied to the underside of the wood holding the shingles), but they've done tests for this and the shingles really aren't harmed (though this will void the warranty for some shingle manufacturers). 

I understand the basics of how to insulate the attic, such as how to seal a recessed light.  But it's way too much work for me.  I'm having trouble just getting ceiling fans and the like installed (as I have to do this now before the blown in insulation covers everything).  That's enough work for me!  By the way, for the ceiling fans, I installed them an an air-tight box. 

If you want any info about the people I've contacted (and I have more leads saved, too), send me a PM. 

[ctviggen]

We average about 900 KWH per month for the year for electric with Central Air running all summer.

Gas bill is also pretty low for Heat, HW and Dryer. Less than $200 per winter months and $20-30 @month rest of the year.

Large house built in 1966.

We used NJ Clean Energy program a few years ago to heavily insulate the attic and basement and replace the boiler and hot water. Net cost was around $10k and that was covered by a 10 year 0% loan. Plus $1500 from the Feds on our tax return.

We also redid the upstairs windows but that did not do much to save energy. Insulation is the way to go for that

Setback thermostats and CFL bulbs in most fixtures. No second fridge in the basement.

My son bought a house a year ago with a huge solar array that was built by the prior owner in the backyard facing South. Way more panels than a rooftop system. He's paid $0.00 since moving in.

All over NJ I see solar panels going up in Parking Lots and front Lawns of Corporate and Public buildings. NJ has one of the highest amounts of solar production in the USA. There used to be state rebates for Solar but they seem to be gone now. Might be due to Gov Christie raiding the Clean Energy program of over $1 billion to balance the budget without "raising taxes".

It would be nice to have gas, but we're too far out in the "boonies" to get gas.  We can get propane, but that supposedly went sky high this year.  Where I live, if you go over the amount of electricity you use, you get paid around 2 cents per kwHr (as opposed to being charged 16+ cents per kwHr), so the idea is to balance electricity production and output.  I'm not sure how they do it, as we got a credit last month.  I believe they wait some time period (a year?) to determine when to finally reconcile the account, as we're going to use more electricity in the summer than we produce and less at certain times during the year (spring, fall) than we produce. 

I wish they had more incentives for insulation.  As it is now, there are some incentives, but you don't have to make much money to not be able to use them.   To me, it seems that insulation pays back more than solar, as it applies to both summer and winter, whereas solar really only applies to summer (unless you go heat pump) in New England. 

I also looked into geothermal, but the prices were outrageous such that even with incentives, the payback was too long. 

[ctviggen]

To get back on topic, I've been reading Fine Home Building for a while.  They basically say that windows don't really pay off.  Even replacing single pane windows can be done without going to double pane and even if you went to double pane, it might not be worthwhile.  Take my old house, for instance, which had R13 (max) in the walls.   Double pane windows are way down the list of where to put money for that house -- more insulation/sealing in the attic will provide a much better return on investment.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Speaking of insulation....I was contemplating that as I redo rooms in the house, demolishing the room past the point of mere paint. I was thinking about removing the drywall of exterior walls and replacing the rolled insulation with sprayed-in foam insulation. Granted, it's only one room at a time, but as I progress, the savings might build up.
Would it be worth it? (the house is 14 years old).

Bob

EDIT: Sorry...this is "technically" off topic of the solar issue, but reasonably helpful in the grand scheme.

[macrojack]

To get back on topic, I've been reading Fine Home Building for a while.  They basically say that windows don't really pay off.  Even replacing single pane windows can be done without going to double pane and even if you went to double pane, it might not be worthwhile.  Take my old house, for instance, which had R13 (max) in the walls.   Double pane windows are way down the list of where to put money for that house -- more insulation/sealing in the attic will provide a much better return on investment.

That's interesting, and timely info. I'm in the process of upgrading a rental house I bought last year and beginning to freak out a bit about the tab I'm running up. The house was built in 1976 and has the original aluminum frame double pane windows. I've been getting prices on replacements because of energy concerns and also because at least half of them have lost their seals and become cloudy. From what you are saying, I begin to think that windows can wait.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Or at least install new (less expensive) single pane windows on some walls (walls where the sun doesn't beat down).   

[macrojack]

Or at least install new (less expensive) single pane windows on some walls (walls where the sun doesn't beat down).   

Builder's grade double pane vinyl replacement windows (most of mine are 60 x 48 sliders) only cost about $175 each. The install and trim can double that but, even so it isn't big money - for one window. I have 9 to consider in this place and my remodel bill will go over $20K if I replace them all. I'm thinking I might just do two bedroom windows right now and go after the others incrementally once I've brought my balance down below $10K. I have to consider how clearly my tenant will want to see the house next door.

[Don_S]

How cold does it get there?  Do they even make single pane windows anymore?  I do not recommend them.  If you are going to spend the money for labor and trim, spend more and get double pane.

I have three large windows to replace but they require safety glass.  OUCH!!!!

Or at least install new (less expensive) single pane windows on some walls (walls where the sun doesn't beat down).   

[Bob in St. Louis]

I was thinking that double pane would be worth the extra money, since you're replaying them anyway....but if what Viggen says is true about "double isn't worth the money"...???
I would have never thought single pane would be worth the time and effort.

[WGH]

To get back on topic, I've been reading Fine Home Building for a while.  They basically say that windows don't really pay off. 

 -- more insulation/sealing in the attic will provide a much better return on investment.

I haven't read the Fine Homebuilding article but here is a link to a related article:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/study-shows-expensive-windows-yield-meager-energy-returns

I would agree - sort of. If your home has minimal insulation or in macrojack's case a rental - new windows would be a waste of money, let the renters suffer and pay the high utility bill.

But if you value comfort, which is hard to monetize, then get the new double pane windows. In my old house I wore a hoodie when sitting under a window because cold air rolled off the glass. Double pane windows also minimize frozen condensation melting and ruining the wood frame and sills.

I recently replaced all the windows in a 1950's house I now live in. My contractor said he no longer installs aluminum windows, they just don't perform as well as the fiberglass frame windows. We picked Marvin Integrity with Ultrex® Pultruded Fiberglass.

http://www.integritywindows.com/?gclid=CPfKtfec3r0CFY6Rfgode2UAvQ

With the Marvin windows there are no drafts and they are extremely quiet when closed. I live in the desert Southwest so went with the  LoĒ3-366® option. When the sun hits the West windows and it's 110 degrees outside there is practically no heat gain. I also have an R49 of attic insulation and the block walls are outsulated with 1" high density foam so the inside temperature is very stable and comfortable.

My average electricity bill in the winter is $40/month, during the long Tucson summer my bill goes up to an average of $92/month. The A/C is a 14.5 SEER Tempstar Gas/Electric Unit.

Wayne

[Nick77]

Hmmm suddenly replacement windows is the ad at the bottom of my screen. Eerie...

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yip, same here.