[geowak]

This is a review of the higher end SET amps made by Line Magnetic Audio.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/line-magnetic-219ia-integrated-tube-amp-review-300b-and-845-tube-magic/

[Mortsnets]

Very interesting review, thanks for posting the link!

[rodge827]

Thanks for posting this.
I've been wanting for a good review of the LM products for sometime, and hope to make it to NYC for a listen at the LM dealer there.

Chris

[geowak]

Thanks for posting this.
I've been wanting for a good review of the LM products for sometime, and hope to make it to NYC for a listen at the LM dealer there.

Chris

Yeah I would have a listen to LM Audio products while you're in NYC. I found out about the line from a dealer in Shaker Heights, OH. He knew I was looking for an amp, and I was intrigued about the tube sound after hearing some ARC stuff he had. I did not have the McIntosh, ARC or Shindo kind of money and he was very excited about the LM Audio sound and price point. He said he had decided to carry the line and he thought it made very, very good sound with Vandersteen and Devore speakers. I gave a listen and feel in love with the 216IA. Could not afford the SET stuff but I am happy with the 216IA.....

Curious thing, I don't know where the ARC stuff is made since it was sold to Quadrivio SGR but when I tried the remote for the LM Audio amp, it was a hefty aluminum build and the ARC was flimsy and made in China.
The ARC was a bit more pricey, as well.

I think, in the end, you have to do away with the hype of a product or company. You have to happy with the performance, build, customer service and what the values are of the company. I like the fact that LM Audio is
modeling some design and engineering from the old Western Electric designs. It seems to be working for them...

[FullRangeMan]

Wow great amp.
One of the best hand work from China if it use hard wiring, not PCBs.
I just wonder why they dont use the 211, better sound than the 845,
mainly now with the Elrog 211.

[vortrex]

I've had a few pieces of LM gear.  The amps are all point to point wired, even the cheapest models.  The build quality will embarrass the "Made in the USA" crowd.  I'm now suing the LM 215 CD player (actually purchased from the reviewer of this 219IA) and it is wonderful.

[Quiet Earth]

It seems like a common theme for people to sing the praises of this brand and then turn around and sell it because, "well it just didn't work out for my situation", or something to that effect. That's not really a good sign in my book. If it's a keeper, then keep it.

(For example; if you read the review linked in this thread, the reviewer sold his amp because he thought it ran too hot.)

[mick wolfe]

Yes, but an 845 amp is going to run hot. Just the nature of the beast. Still said it was the best amp he's ever auditioned/owned and may buy another when he moves. Sounds like a solid endorsement to me IF you can deal with the heat factor.

[jsm71]

I happen to really like the look of the LM gear and I appreciate the build quality.  I could identify with the reviewer's comments on how happy he was with the sound qualities because I feel that way about my gear.  The reviewer was clearly smitten by the sound and that has to be there before all the other aspects even matter.  And the initial $7.5k price is easily justified if not for all the other negatives.

I had a McIntosh amp that weighed 100 lbs. in its case.  Well make to be sure, but I was so happy the day I sold that and would never again have to struggle with it.  I also have had a couple of amps since then that sounded better so build quality alone isn't the end all.  The LM weights 120+ lbs.  Forget it.  Runs too hot to keep.  Forget it.  Thousands of dollars for good tubes.  Forget it.

I run 87dB sensitive hybrid ESL speakers with a 40 watt PP class A tube amp from Decware.  Before all the Decware haters leap from the closet, know that it is the very best sounding amp of any kind I've ever owned as well.  Decware gear is US designed and assembled in East Peoria, Ill, wired point to point with no circuit boards, uses affordable tubes, is also very well built if not like a tank, heat output is not a problem, weighs in at about 42 lbs, ships in a custom Pelican case, and is warranted for life to the original buyer.  $4,695.  The biggest negative with Decware is a long build wait, typically 12 weeks.   

I'm really not trying to stump for Decware, and the amp has other smaller negatives, but nothing that drives me away from it.  There are other really good tube amps of different design approaches from US companies that can be bought well under $10k that owners can actually keep and are easy to live with.  Most of them are from lesser known small companies who limit or use no advertising to contain costs.  Mine is just one example.  It is a shame that the LM's great sound has to carry so many negatives.

[mick wolfe]

Any SET that puts out 20 or 30 watts per channel is going to run hot. The same SET will be heavy as well due to the trannies. This is not solely a trait of LM amps. Many will easily put up with the heat and weight issues for the sonic reward.

[guf]

i think it cool its some random photography guy is reviewing this. I have read this guys camera reviews long before i know anything about audio.

[groovybassist]

After a quarter century of solid state gear, I'm paring back to a small, tube based system which includes the Line Magnetic LM211ia. I'm sure it doesn't run nearly as hot as the amp in the review, but I will say it's quite a good amp, without the "for the price" proviso. I'm very happy with the build quality, price and sound.

[geowak]

I happen to really like the look of the LM gear and I appreciate the build quality.  I could identify with the reviewer's comments on how happy he was with the sound qualities because I feel that way about my gear.  The reviewer was clearly smitten by the sound and that has to be there before all the other aspects even matter.  And the initial $7.5k price is easily justified if not for all the other negatives.

I had a McIntosh amp that weighed 100 lbs. in its case.  Well make to be sure, but I was so happy the day I sold that and would never again have to struggle with it.  I also have had a couple of amps since then that sounded better so build quality alone isn't the end all.  The LM weights 120+ lbs.  Forget it.  Runs too hot to keep.  Forget it.  Thousands of dollars for good tubes.  Forget it.

I run 87dB sensitive hybrid ESL speakers with a 40 watt PP class A tube amp from Decware.  Before all the Decware haters leap from the closet, know that it is the very best sounding amp of any kind I've ever owned as well.  Decware gear is US designed and assembled in East Peoria, Ill, wired point to point with no circuit boards, uses affordable tubes, is also very well built if not like a tank, heat output is not a problem, weighs in at about 42 lbs, ships in a custom Pelican case, and is warranted for life to the original buyer.  $4,695.  The biggest negative with Decware is a long build wait, typically 12 weeks.   

I'm really not trying to stump for Decware, and the amp has other smaller negatives, but nothing that drives me away from it.  There are other really good tube amps of different design approaches from US companies that can be bought well under $10k that owners can actually keep and are easy to live with.  Most of them are from lesser known small companies who limit or use no advertising to contain costs.  Mine is just one example.  It is a shame that the LM's great sound has to carry so many negatives.

Decware amps do indeed look very nice. I am sure they sound great. For me, I have two audio systems that are both in the low to mid price range, but all things are relative. I have a tube system and a SS system. I think I like different qualities in both. All the companies making audio gear, in all the flavors. That just makes the whole experience more fulfilling to me. It's not that one that is better or worse than another, it's what one likes.... IMHO

I can understand why someone would NOT want an amp that runs too hot. I gave up on a company here that many love, because their amps and preamps have to much hum and buzzing sounds. The guy who made the stuff claimed they did not hum and buzz, my AC oulets did. I moved on... but other fans will love that gear.

[FullRangeMan]

Any SET that puts out 20 or 30 watts per channel is going to run hot. The same SET will be heavy as well due to the trannies. This is not solely a trait of LM amps. Many will easily put up with the heat and weight issues for the sonic reward.

I also would say any SET using voltage regulators as output tube as 6C33 or 6AS7 etc will run hot.

Also if the loudspeaker arent near 100dB sensitivity the tube will had short life.

[JoshK]

Wow great amp.
One of the best hand work from China if it use hard wiring, not PCBs.
I just wonder why they dont use the 211, better sound than the 845,
mainly now with the Elrog 211.

I don't think you, or anyone really, can make such a strong statement.  How many different 211/845 designs have you heard and tried? 

I really think it comes down to design.  211 is much easier to drive, placing a lot less demand on the driver which is highly influential on the sound, but at the same time requires a much more difficult/onerous output transformer which is also highly influential on the sound. 

FWIW, Elrog makes both an 845 and a 211.  Also FWIW, I own 211 2-stage transformer coupled monoblocks (vinylsavor). 

I like the aesthetics of the LM stuff, and based on general visual observation/tube choices/vague descriptions  seem to like their design choices as well.

Also loudspeaker sensitivity has nothing to due with tube life span for a SET amp, bias current alone does. 

The heat from a medium powered true class A amp, tube or SS is real.  Most class A designs are ~20% efficient, that means if the amp is putting out 20w in power, it is putting out at least 80w in heat.   With tubes, especially big transmitter tubes like 211/845 you have to add another 40-60watts of heater current for the filaments which is mostly turned into heat, then add the bias and heater current of the driver/preamp tubes.  This equals hot.   

For me I use my big SETs during the cooler months of Fall to Spring and use class D amps (inexpensive) during the summer.  This works out really well from a practical perspective because as an active person I tend to be outdoors a lot during the warmer months anyway not spending a great deal of time indoors vegging.  Plus, everyone is using their A/C (including me) during the summer months so the power degrades sound anyway. 

If I were the reviewer, I just get a relatively inexpensive class D integrated for the hot season and keep the keeper amp.

[mick wolfe]

I also would say any SET using voltage regulators as output tube as 6C33 or 6AS7 etc will run hot.

Also if the loudspeaker arent near 100dB sensitivity the tube will had short life.

Not so according to Matt R. at Pitch Perfect Audio. When I asked him how often he replaces 845's in his Line Magnetic demo amps, he said he has yet to replace any. The demos are mostly done with DeVore speakers which don't approach 100 db in efficiency.

[FullRangeMan]

You both mean say a low sensitive speaker dont stress the tubes?
Hard to believe it, even hard to believe that you experiencied guys believe this fairy tale.

If so all 300B/2A3 amps not need a lone 100dB fullrange with a light paper cone, it would drive a 4 ohms multiways 88dB speaker, but it cant.
In doing it there is a price, the price is low useful life.

These 300B or other SET tube cant drive big speakers with low sensitivity as 88 86dB etc

[mick wolfe]

I will agree to a point. No, you don't match SET's or most any tube amp with unfriendly impedance curves. Efficiency isn't nearly as big an issue here as the unfriendly impedance curve of 3 or 4 way. I drive 87 db 2-ways in a fairly small room with ease using a 22 watt 845 SET. My friend drives 90 db 2-ways in a larger room with 300B monos. In 12 years, he's never had a 300B fail.( nor have I) In a perfect world, yes, he'd be better served with a speaker of higher efficiency. What I hear at his place comes across pretty much stress free, but his taste is toward smaller scale music. If he were into big band or rock, he would be better served with a speaker in the mid 90's or above in efficiency. I owned Wright 2A3 SET's years ago. At that time, I drove Spendor 2/3's supplemented with an ACI sub( no tube failures here either). Realistically this combination was only suited for small scale music. I realized to do full scale music with ease at 3 or 4 watts, you'd have to move into "horn territory".

[FullRangeMan]

I will agree to a point. No, you don't match SET's or most any tube amp with unfriendly impedance curves. Efficiency isn't nearly as big an issue here as the unfriendly impedance curve of 3 or 4 way. I drive 87 db 2-ways in a fairly small room with ease using a 22 watt 845 SET. My friend drives 90 db 2-ways in a larger room with 300B monos. In 12 years, he's never had a 300B fail.( nor have I) In a perfect world, yes, he'd be better served with a speaker of higher efficiency. What I hear at his place comes across pretty much stress free, but his taste is toward smaller scale music. If he were into big band or rock, he would be better served with a speaker in the mid 90's or above in efficiency. I owned Wright 2A3 SET's years ago. At that time, I drove Spendor 2/3's supplemented with an ACI sub( no tube failures here either). Realistically this combination was only suited for small scale music. I realized to do full scale music with ease at 3 or 4 watts, you'd have to move into "horn territory".

Wow Iam surprised but what you said 12 years with a 845 and 300B is a unseening situation in my limited experience with valves, it looks like everlasting money.

Ever military Russian 6C33 dont reach this long with low sensitivity speakers.

[mick wolfe]

I'll be a bit more clear. He's never had a 300B fail in 12 years, but he has rolled various 300B's thru the years. So it's not like he's had the same pair in service for 12 years. I believe he's tried 5 or 6 different manufacturers. The best (and most pricey) of the bunch has been his current Emission Labs. They've been in the amps for about a year.