[isaacrivera]

Cartridge recommendation
Hello audiophiles,

I am getting a brand new VPI Classic 3 with 3D tonearm. I've invested all my cash in the table arm combo, leaving only a residual budget for the cartridge of about $800. I figured I can upgrade a cartridge easier when cash flows than a turntable. So for this $ VPI can preinstall an Ortofon 2M Black or a Dynavector 20x2L. I am not knowledgeable enough of carts to make a choice.

The rest of the system is Sutherland 20/20 phono, Primaluna Prologue Premium integrated amp with La Radio Technique 1956 NOS 12AU7s and KT120s and Acoustic Zen Adagios.

I listen to Classical, Jazz, world, folk, electronica, some classic rock...

I appreciate your input!

[roscoeiii]

How well can the Southerland do LOMC?

[isaacrivera]

Hey roscoeiii, thanks for asking. These are the ranges of the 20/20:

Gain Options
40 dB, 46 dB, 52 dB, 58 dB, and  64 dB

Loading Options
47.5k Ohm, 1k Ohm, 475 Ohm, 200 Ohm, and 100 Ohm

Again, I am a beginner with carts... does that answer your question?

[Austin08]

SoundsmithZephyre Very good cart for the money and was design for VPI turntable. You could call elusivedisc. Sometime, they usually give 10% off of your purchase.

[isaacrivera]

SoundsmithZephyre Very good cart for the money and was design for VPI turntable. You could call elusivedisc. Sometime, they usually give 10% off of your purchase.

Thanks Austin08, can't really find any reviews of it...

[Austin08]

Thanks Austin08, can't really find any reviews of it...

If you search here or at other audio websites. There will be many positive reviews and comments. So far, I am very happy with this cart. Great soundstage, deep powerful bass and very nice top end.

[Minn Mark]

I'm using a Sumiko Blackbird with my Classic I 'table.  These go for 1100.00  For less money you could go with the Sumiko Bluepoint Special EVO III (500.00) There are lots of reviews around, or check our the user reviews at www.needledoctor.com.  These are high output moving coils and should work well with your system.

Mark

[bajaed]

Regarding your two options in the op, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. The Black is regarded by many as the best moving magnet cart out there. I have a friend that has one and he loves it. You would be hard pressed to find a bad review of it, though I have heard it can be very revealing of bad recordings and may not be the best choice if you listen to used or less than perfect vinyl.

I have a Dyna 10x5 that sounds fantastic and the 20xl will be my next cart if I ever want to upgrade. I would choose the moving coil Dynavector if it was me. Others may be able to tell you which one matches up better with your phono stage.

[isaacrivera]

Regarding your two options in the op, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. The Black is regarded by many as the best moving magnet cart out there. I have a friend that has one and he loves it. You would be hard pressed to find a bad review of it, though I have heard it can be very revealing of bad recordings and may not be the best choice if you listen to used or less than perfect vinyl.

I have a Dyna 10x5 that sounds fantastic and the 20xl will be my next cart if I ever want to upgrade. I would choose the moving coil Dynavector if it was me. Others may be able to tell you which one matches up better with your phono stage.

Thanks bajaed. I feel inclined to the DV, but reading the 6moons review of it ( http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dynavector/1.html ) on page two it indicates that  Dynavector recommends loading it at 30Ω. Yet the Sutherland's lowest loading setting is 100Ω.

[sunnydaze]

Thanks bajaed. I feel inclined to the DV, but reading the 6moons review of it ( http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dynavector/1.html ) on page two it indicates that  Dynavector recommends loading it at 30Ω. Yet the Sutherland's lowest loading setting is 100Ω.

Not true.  Mfr recommends greater than 30.  I load my 20XL at 100 and it is absolutely fine.   I wouldn't worry about it.   There is a reason VPI commonly recs the 20x on their tables...they are a notoriously good match.  You cant go wrong with it.  I've used both the HO and LO versions on 4 different tables and 6 different arms, worked great on all.

[SET Man]

Hey!

  As for Sumiko, I can't say about the Blackbird but I used to use the BPS EVO III, I changed to Benz Micro original Ace H and it was a big improvement and I like it much better than... at least in my own system.

  I still have the ACE H. But I don't know what happened to the Benz Micro, I don't seem them in stock anywhere lately. So, with that I think it is pointless to recommend it if you can't get one.

   I have heard Dynavector XX-2 and 20X2 a few times in my friends' systems and I was impressed. If I were to change my Benz Micro ACE H I think I might go for the 20X2 H.

Take care,
Buddy

[neobop]

Benz is no longer distributed in the US.  I don't know if this is temporary or not.

I recently saw a couple of discussions on this subject and thought they might be of interest:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1392125151&openfrom&1&4#1

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1363494646&&&/Sumiko-Blackbird-MC-vs-Clearaudio-Maestr

Note: I don't know the mass of the 3D arm.  I suggest checking for compatibility with carts other than those recommended by VPI.  This is not to say there will be a problem, it's always better to check first.
neo

[isaacrivera]

This is a very helpful discussion. There is a lot to learn to become a vinyl enthusiast, which is, of course, part of the fun. Thanks everyone for your insights.

[isaacrivera]

Not true.  Mfr recommends greater than 30.  I load my 20XL at 100 and it is absolutely fine.   I wouldn't worry about it.   There is a reason VPI commonly recs the 20x on their tables...they are a notoriously good match.  You cant go wrong with it.  I've used both the HO and LO versions on 4 different tables and 6 different arms, worked great on all.

Thanks sunnydaze, but in the same 6moons review, towards the end Mr. Beudot says after praising the treble of the cart, "In my setup the Dv 20X-2 did not display the same level of superiority in the bass. It did sound deeper, tighter and slightly better controlled but resolution over the Denon was not a game changer. This could have been due to any number of reasons, loading at 50Ω instead of the 30Ω recommended by Dynavector".

If this was the case, then a 100Ω setting would weaken the bass resolution even further... Any thought on that?

Thanks!

[roscoeiii]

No experience myself with Denon carts on this table unfortunately but they can be found for good prices at Comet Supply.

[bside123]

In your price range, you might consider Clearaudio's Virtuoso or Maestro. Previously, I had great experiences with those two cartridges mounted on a VPI JMW 10.5i tonearm.

[isaacrivera]

Many great suggestions. I have read great things about many of these carts. However, being a novice, I am not about to attempt mounting a cartridge myself! So it has to be pre mounted by VPI. So it seems the choices at the moment are the Ortofon 2M Black or the Dynavector 20x2L. Yet I still have my doubts about the Dynavector with the Sutherland...

[Minn Mark]

Talk to Galen @ Galen Carol Audio.  (www.gcaudio.com)   I bought my VPI from him and he mounted my Blackbird for me. He is a VPI dealer and an excellent advisor (IMHO).

Good Luck, and keep posting once you get your fantastic table-arm-cart combination. Congrats !

Mark

[isaacrivera]

Good Luck, and keep posting once you get your fantastic table-arm-cart combination. Congrats !

Mark

Thanks Mark, will do.

[sunnydaze]

Thanks sunnydaze, but in the same 6moons review, towards the end Mr. Beudot says after praising the treble of the cart, "In my setup the Dv 20X-2 did not display the same level of superiority in the bass. It did sound deeper, tighter and slightly better controlled but resolution over the Denon was not a game changer. This could have been due to any number of reasons, loading at 50Ω instead of the 30Ω recommended by Dynavector".

If this was the case, then a 100Ω setting would weaken the bass resolution even further... Any thought on that?

Thanks!

I can't comment on his comments as I don't know his system, room or tastes.  Additionally, I have learned to not take these guys comments as gospel.   Doing the research will reveal any number of recommendations  for "correct" load settings.

All I can say is that Dynavector does not recommend 30 ohms.   I direct you to their website where it specifically says "greater than 30 ohms".   This means 30 is the floor, and the listener should experiment to find what suits him best.   So for the reviewer to say that 30 is the mfr rec is simply not true.

Also note on the website that Dyna recs "greater than 1000" for the HO version.  This is not a rec for 1000.  Most folks load this one at 47k, as do I.  It sounds great.

In my readings, I find that most 20xl users load right around 100.  TBH, I seriously doubt that I could even hear any diff between 30 and 100.  Other golden ears may disagree.  But personally, I would not fret about it or get caught up in such minutiae.

From Jonathan Valin, TAS:

There will usually be a recommended loading value or range of values in the instruction manual. Once again, a suggested cartridge-loading is only that—a suggestion. You do not have to take it as gospel.

In my experience, there really is no one “right” answer to this question. The loading of an m-c cartridge depends on which sonic qualities you prefer. In general, loading a cartridge down will tame excessive brightness and/or aggressiveness (and at the same time seemingly make the bass range fuller and more prominent because of the reduction in upper-midrange/treble energy); however, you may pay a small price in dynamic liveliness, presence, airiness, and spaciousness for these sonic gains depending on system context.