[raysracing]

Hey all.  So I have my Omega 3 bookshelf (wide baffle) with RS5. As you may know I have a MP301MKII SET amp.  It is amazing. Now I want to know what speaker cable tweaks there are. I would describe my set up as surgically precise with loads of micro detail. I want the detail and to tone down or maybe it is warm up the upper end a bit more. I have read or been told that Omega's like certain properties in speaker cables just like they like a certain amplifier. High current?

[DaveC113]

The issue with using cables to add coloration is you will lose detail and possibly add other unpleasant colorations. I know a lot of folks say to use cables to "tune" but after a lot of experience I can say, this is a very bad idea and will not get you closer to the goal of high fidelity. So if you find a warm cable you will lose detail, and it will also sound slow and bloated compared to a more accurate cable. The RS5 driver is very accurate its self and IMO, should not be "toned down"... if you want a more laid back presentation then maybe a Hoyt Bedford speaker would be a better choice? In any case, just something to consider...

The cables I sell are incredibly accurate and will probably enhance the amount of detail you are getting from your system, so they may not be a good fit for what you are looking for but if you want to try them I have a 10' pair of 20 gauge demos right now, my 20g cables start around $275... 

Also, if you do want a warm cable just look for a regular (NOT UPOCC) copper cable made with thick wire. It will be a severe limitation to fidelity though.

[jorgen]

Hi Dave
I'm also on the lookout for some ok speaker cables for my system. I have a decware minitorii, and Thursday i will get my Omega speakers. At the moment I have a set of Tara lab helix prism 6 speaker cables. But I'm not sure what their characteristics are, I haven't had the chance to compare them other speaker cables just yet, and I'm not well educated in hifi. It would really be interesting to hear more what your cables are good for. How would you say it would fit in with the rest of my system? Do you offer IC also? I heard once that it was a positive factor if IC and SC came from the same manufacturer, but that might be a myth.

[Canada Rob]

Ray,

It sounds like you are already getting micro detail and everything a transparent speaker cable will give you.  I would look at my source.  What are you running for a DAC etc.  Also, changing out your power tubes can make a big difference. 

Concerning speaker cables, I have have had good success with DNM solid core.  Also, Jupiter solid core would be another option.

[dflee]

Looking at your system, seems like you will need long runs.

Don

[DaveC113]

CR, I've tried both and my cables are far better than either... basically UPOCC copper sounds much different than regular copper and the litz type design of my speaker cables further improves accuracy, especially at higher frequencies. Louis has tried at least the DNM and has been recommending my cables lately...

Both the DNM and Jupiter are more on the warm side, they will sound smooth and rich but are less accurate and with less detail vs the cables I offer.

If anyone is interested, I am doing a tour and everyone that has posted so far is welcome to participate. The current tour is D3 ic cables and speaker cables. I have one package going around with balanced XLR cables as well as RCA cables, the other with only single ended RCA cables:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118081.0

P.S. Louis allowed me to post more openly on his forum, which I appreciate, but I do not intend to use it to promote my cables except where it may really benefit someone and is relevant to the discussion...

[Folsom]

Has anyone tried Analysis + ? They have very nice low end; the spendy ones. I'm still trying to get a better idea why they work well, without taking them apart haha.

[newzooreview]

Hey all.  So I have my Omega 3 bookshelf (wide baffle) with RS5. As you may know I have a MP301MKII SET amp.  It is amazing. Now I want to know what speaker cable tweaks there are. I would describe my set up as surgically precise with loads of micro detail. I want the detail and to tone down or maybe it is warm up the upper end a bit more. I have read or been told that Omega's like certain properties in speaker cables just like they like a certain amplifier. High current?

The above comment about looking into the upstream components rather than the cabling makes a lot of sense. Have you tried using different tubes in the SET; using an active pre-amp instead of passive (which can lead to the thin lifeless but highly detailed sound you might be experiencing); a change to your phono amp?

[DaveC113]

Has anyone tried Analysis + ? They have very nice low end; the spendy ones. I'm still trying to get a better idea why they work well, without taking them apart haha.

Made by Neotech I'm pretty sure....  as are cables by around 20 different cable companies. A+ uses good design and materials, their cables are good and not priced absurdly for the most part.

@nzr + CR, you can't look at one thing and not the other, they are connected (literally).    I do think the approach of neutrality and accuracy is always best no matter the component or cable, but reality is that no component is perfectly accurate so we need to achieve a balance or synergy with component choices. Choosing components and then expecting cables to "tune" the system to our personal preferences is not a good approach however, the components AND cables need to be looked at as a whole because they can both make major differences.

 

[Canada Rob]

Dave,

Your cables may well be better than DNM or Jupiter but I am trying to guide Ray in the more affordable realms and the cables I recommended are far less money than yours.  As far as your comment about me looking at one thing and not another, you need to re-read my post.  I mentioned wire and tubes.  I also totally agree with you as far as having all components, of which cabling is one, have synergy together.  A person can have a system made up of all 5 star review components and have a garbage stereo.  A $5,000 stereo with synergy among it's components can utterly destroy a system many times it's price that doesn't have synergy.  In audio, these sayings are often true: "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts", and "if it sounds good it is good".

[genjamon]

I would add that the problem may not be the level of higher frequency energy, but that something is standing in the way of resolving the separation between all those sounds.  I have found that with my setup as I have improved cabling, the high frequency energy is still there, but it's better resolved, so doesn't overwhelm, but actually provides enhanced experience because the cymbals aren't all combining together with atmospheric effects and so forth.  No more ringing overhang and "wall of sound", but more of an entire soundscape.  And yes, Dave's cables have been an important part of the solution for me.  Good stuff at reasonable prices as far as I can tell. Without my cable upgrades, I would have high end components that still were sounding somewhat muddled or brash, depending on the recording.

But I have been finding power cables to be as much, or even more influential than interconnects and speaker cables.  It's a lot of variables.  While I understand where Dave is coming from about not "tuning" using cabling, you have to look to reduce the variables somewhere if you're trying to optimize.  For me, I've found some pretty good synergy with some components and my current speakers, and playing around with cabling has been productive in optimizing the sound.  But I'm just playing around with a couple of Dave's models of interconnects and a couple power cords with opposing characteristics.  So, it's down to a 2X2 matrix in my current trials, which is do-able in terms of A/B/C/D listening sessions.

[DaveC113]

CR, I agree it's good to have cheaper options for sure 

The specific thing I was referring to was your statement that "It sounds like you are already getting micro detail and everything a transparent speaker cable will give you."  That's difficult to determine without a lot of experience and experimentation, impossible if you do not have access to the system. So, it seemed like you were saying to ignore the cabling because it sounds like it's doing it's job and concentrate on other aspects of the system. This is what I disagree with, as speaker cables can make a very, very large difference in the sound you're hearing. If that was not what you meant than sorry for the misunderstanding.

Also (unrelated) I do hear a lot of people that will try to create synergy, or tune a system, or whatever you want to call it, with cabling. It is my opinion, that if the person already has basic and not-horrible cables that you need to have good synergy to start with. For an extreme example, cables will not save the pairing of a SET amp with a low-effeciency speaker that has a complicated crossover. For a more reasonable example, how about pairing a bright, analytical source like a Benchmark DAC with the old hemp drivers (or even RS5s) and expecting your speaker cables to "warm it up"? The latter example is simply a bad pairing and yes, you can get warm and smooth sounding cables but it still won't work very well. You'd be far better off with a source that matches better and neutral cables. Or different speakers if you really want "warm".







 

[Folsom]

Well, with power cables you can greatly reduce the difference between them with power conditioning. That doesn't go as well with speaker cables and interconnects for various reasons (serious filter limitations, by comparison).

[raysracing]

I have a power conditioning (or ???) issue too, but that is not a discussion for this thread.  I have a bit of buzz and hiss.bad I work to quiet my room those become a bit more  noticeable.

Can I get on the tour?

I think I am about as low a budget guy on this forum, but have been lucky enough I think to have built an amazing system for the money. Those few who have heard it like it a lot. So tweaking is my C&C way to connect with this passion/hobby.

[CSI]

Lots of advice here - much of it worth trying. FWIW my Omega Super3XRS's (same drivers as yours) have about 40 hours on them. I'm in a small room so, with highly revealing speakers like these, room treatment is very important. I use GIK products to kill the early reflections. Cables can make a difference but not sure if that will change the nature of things. Certainly take advantage of the cable tour if you can to see for yourself. Dipping into my bag-o-wires I found that a set of older entry level cables from Audience seemed to have the best synergy. All my electronics sound great with the Omega's but with major differences. The closest I have to your rig is a Dared SET. Wonderful on most things but a little bright and aggressive on a few CD's. My RWA Signature 16 is punchier and clearer and only gives up a little of the SET 3D effect. It is my go to amp for most listening - a magical combo for hearing the details on your CD's and records and pulling you into the music. But there are still a few sources that are too "hot". Which brings me to my "desert island" rig to use with the Omega's. It is never too forward and gives up only a bit of 3D air and there is very little sacrifice in depth or detail. Somehow it is like pulling on a really comfortable pair of old shoes. The combo: Red Wine Audio Isabella preamp with Dario Miniwatt tubes rolled in driving my Odyssey Khartago amplifier. Everything digital starts with the RWA Bellina DAC (with Amperex NOS tube). That being said, I hear steady improvement in the speakers as the hours add up (less aggressive, smoother highs, better bass). All these assessments could change after another 40-50 hours of break in. Be patient and enjoy the trip.

[scottd132]

I am using Signal Cable products all around. The Ultra speaker cables have Nom. Capacitance - 18.5 pF/ft

Nom. Conductor DC Resistance - 3.2 Ω/1000 ft. I am currently driving Super 3S with a McIntosh Receiver but

have a Trafomatic Aries in transit. I will use these cables as well.

Previous to Omega i drove Cain and Cain Abbys using Cardas SE15 with great results.

I like the neutrality of the signal cable and the price is hard to beat. It will be intersting to see how the Signal Cable Ultra Speaker cables work with the Trafomatic Aries.

I suggest keeping price and performance in balance and there are a lot of good cables out there that are truly affordable.

Blue Jean cables are very affordable and for those who use them they have good reviews.

Scott

[Good Times]

I don't agree that you can't have warmth and also detail.

From experience I would avoid solid core cables with Omega speakers. They can be hard edged at the upper frequencies which will only augment your 'clinical' trait more. Because Omegas are efficient and don't use large drivers, you don't need to go for too large a gauge in your cables. So my advice would be to use a multi-stranded ohno-cast wire with gold-platted copper connectors. This should steer you on the path to neutrality fairly swiftly.

Also re power conditioning, that's not going to cure any hums or buzzing you may have. This is a sign of issues elsewhere (most likely grounding issues).

[DaveC113]

I don't agree that you can't have warmth and also detail.

From experience I would avoid solid core cables with Omega speakers. They can be hard edged at the upper frequencies which will only augment your 'clinical' trait more. Because Omegas are efficient and don't use large drivers, you don't need to go for too large a gauge in your cables. So my advice would be to use a multi-stranded ohno-cast wire with gold-platted copper connectors. This should steer you on the path to neutrality fairly swiftly.

Also re power conditioning, that's not going to cure any hums or buzzing you may have. This is a sign of issues elsewhere (most likely grounding issues).

You can have a decently warm presentation with a lot of detail... but IF the warmth is through cabling it will always be a trade off ime. I have done A LOT of trials and this seems to hold true. Other components and parts are less predictable, but cables seem to be. For example copper foil caps seems both warmer and more detailed than alum or tin foil caps.

The 20 gauge speaker cables I sell have 256 individually insulated strands of 44g UPOCC copper, the 14g has 1060... the strands are braided around a flat core and covered with a cotton jacket, it looks like a flat shoelace. This is the best value for speaker cables I have found, and performs fairly close to upocc silver. I have not found another copper speaker cable that is even close.  I also would, for my system at least, have one end with rhodium plating and the other end with gold plated upocc copper connectors.

[Good Times]

That's a lot of strands Dave!

The cable I've found to give the most neutral and organic presentation without losing detail is made up of cryo'd 56-strand OCC with cotton filler and poly insulation. It's 15 gauge.

I like to stick with gold-plated copper connectors, not a fan of rhodium given its comparatively poor conductivity and never had the need for increased corrosion resistance. I also prefer to keep metal changes to a minimum so if binding posts are not rhodium, I won't run rhodium plugs on them.

[Canada Rob]

Good Times,

This is excellent advice.  When dissimilar metals come in prolonged contact there can be what is called galvanic corrosion.  I learned that in my years in metal working.  Nice to be reminded again.  It would require a deeper study to see which metal combinations are most prone to galvanic corrosion and what atmospheric conditions would bring it on.  Maybe a new thread could be started on this subject, as it likely effects all of us.