[Afterimage]

Hi Afterimage,

I haven't tried using an external USB drive yet, but my understanding is that it first needs to be formatted by the Z1ES to work with it.  Then you can back-up the internal 1TB drive, or use the external drive to store more music that you load onto it via the Z1ES interface.  So you could have 1TB internal, 2TB external, etc.  If I personally was looking for more storage space, I would look into installing a larger drive in the Sony.  Not sure how large the 2.5" SSD drives are these days, but thinking 2TB is around the corner...

The good thing is that there is already a backup on your computer (because you need to transfer from your computer to the Z1ES to get files to it in the first place), and you can control what music you load onto the Z1ES in manual mode.  So a lot of music that you probably are not planning on listening to can stay on your computer, and you can load 1TB of your favorites onto the Z1ES. 

[Also, it looks like you can copy files back to your computer from the Z1ES when you network them.  I have to confirm, but that is interesting because music from one's player can be copied to another's computer, and then onto another player it seems.]

I plan to post some more listening impressions this evening and will go from there...

Vinnie

Thanks for the info Vinnie.  I do not have anything on my computer.  My Macbook does not have enough storage space.  It is all on an external hard drive.  That is the only place I have it.  So I guess I still a bit confused. 

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie, this is the most informative thread about modding Z1ES so far - thanks a lot for it!

I am a bit afraid of tubes since I have zero experience with them but will watch this place closely and who knows... and I need to buy Z1ES first, of course   

One repeated transformers question, please - are the primary Tx windings easily adjustable inside for 100/120/220V operation or they are custom build for each US/EU/JP version?

Any ideas to design optional output buffer and analog volume control inside the unit so one can easily connect the power amp directly to Z1ES, please?

I forgot to mention above that there is actually a third, smaller transformer that provides some power to the unit when it is in STANDBY, so it can wake up and boot up with the remote or App.  From what I can tell, all three transformers are specifically made for 120Vac.  There is a 230Vac model available that most likely uses a different primary winding on each transformer. 

If you wanted to use the 120Vac version on 230Vac, I recommend an external step-down transformer.  If you are only using it for the Z1ES, it only needs to be able to handle a 35W load (max).  Standby mode is 0.3W.  So this external step-down transformer box does not need to be large, and it would give the benefit of added isolation and HF noise filtering (nothing wrong with that!).



Thank you,
Ivo

Hi Ivo,

Thank you.  I want this thread to be informative and I have spent hours researching the internals of the Z1ES, so I'm becoming very familiar with it.

There is really NOTHING to be afraid of regarding the dual tube stages that I plan on using.  The tubes will last a really, really long time with this design.  It's all automatic in that you just use the player like you normally would. 

As far as an option to add a built-in volume control and output buffer, that is doable.  The volume control unit can remain in the back of the unit to keep the signal path very short and clean, and you can use a remote to control it (run an IR sensor to the front).  Actually -  Sony's remote could probably do it since it does have volume buttons (for learning volume codes of other amps), that could be really slick! 
It would be like a tube buffered preamp built-in, but with a very short signal path right on the back panel. 

[Aside: I suppose an analog input could be done if needed, but it would add a relay or selector switch in the signal path]

-----

I have to be honest and say that I'm not too interested in the balanced (XLR) outputs.  I don't run very long interconnects and don't see much of a point to sending the signal to another stage for the balanced signal, and then to a balanced input stage of a preamp or amp, which usually converts it back to SE somewhere anyway.  I'm not sure how many of you out there would really want to used balanced instead.  I rather disable it because after the I/V conversion that follows the dac, the signal it split to feed the SE and BAL output stages.  I rather see the feed to the BAL output lifted.   

Also - I think that I forgot to mention that there would be another dedicated linear power supply section added to feed the tube stages.  Sony did such a good job isolating the stages that I believe it would only be detrimental to the sound to not use a dedicated supply for the tube stages.

Thanks for the info Vinnie.  I do not have anything on my computer.  My Macbook does not have enough storage space.  It is all on an external hard drive.  That is the only place I have it.  So I guess I still a bit confused.

Hi Afterimage,

That's fine.  You run the Sony app on your computer and you get to select where the Z1ES looks for your music.  So you'd tell it to look for it in the external drive that plugs into your computer.  Then the music files get sent from your external drive to your computer, and then sent to the ZES1 via LAN or WiFi connection. 

Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

Soooooo - how does it sound??? (continued).

As promised, here we go:

I’ve reached the point where I feel like I have a good grip on the stock sound signature.  I've accumulated 10 to 12 hours of dedicated listening so far.  As I’ve mentioned earlier, it is fantastic for a $2k player and easily competes with anything in its price class.  And I’ve heard more expensive stand-alone dacs that I would stay sounded inferior to the Z1ES, and I'm not going to mention names!     

First – this is important to mention:  Even though smargo put some burn-in time on it, out of the box it sounded a little bit closed-in, bloated in the bass, and kind of strident at times for me.  After letting it run in for about 24 hours connected to 5k load resistors, it DID make a noticeable change for the better!  Like a lot of components, it will benefit from 100+ hours of burn-in connected to a load before you start getting critical with it.  If you don't believe in burn-in, just delete what I just wrote from your mind and let's continue...

----

Ok – with both Redbook, High Res PCM, and DSD, the Z1ES sounds big, bold, and beautifully balanced sounding!  It is very clean and dynamic.  It does a fantastic job conveying the energy in the music (assuming you are listening to energetic music in the first place)!   

The top-end is nice and extended, with plenty of decay.  Plenty of fine detail retrieval without acting too much like a magnifying glass to the point where it ruins things.   I don’t want to mention “air” because I get tired of that term being used, so I’ll just say that throws of the illusion that there is a lot of nitrogen, some oxygen, and a smidgen of other gases around the instruments being played.   

The midrange is what I’d call neutral. Maybe a little dry, but not overly so.  Instruments and vocals are nice and clear and distinct.  When it comes to conveying emotion (for me, that mostly lies in the midrange) it is good, but I believe that is one of the key areas where the Z1ES can be improved the most, and where I also believe a good tube implementation would be most welcome.

Another one is sound stage.  In its stock form, is fairly deep, but not as wide and tall as I’m used to (using the Bellina dac).  It needs to get taller and wider to really sound three dimensional.  But front to back layering is solid in its stock form!

In terms of tonality, I am happy to report that is does a decent job.  I just needs some more of it to do a better at seducing me into the music with certain favorite tracks of mine for testing this kind of thing.  Again, it’s an emotional thing – and in my experience, a good tube output stage implementation would be KILLER here!

The bass digs deep and has plenty of weight, but I found that it lacks a little in articulation.  Some bass solos have a bit of overhang to the notes.  It’s not “slow” – but at times it gets a bit congested.  I think I know where that little issue is coming from after studying the analog power supply and analog output stage boards.   

----

As far as the PCM to DSD remastering goes, I was actually pleasantly surprised.  I did not think it would impress me (why not just keep the files in their native PCM form?), but for certain Redbook albums, they gained some missing fullness and body, and even became a tad less aggressive in the top end.  With well-recorded Redbook and hi-res PCM, I mostly preferred the PCM-to-DSD feature turned off.  YMMV with this feature, but the fact that you can enable or disable this feature is a nice touch, so use as you please.

I preferred DSEE turned ON when testing out the internet radio as did help bring a little more life up top, but it was only a subtle improvement for me.  For Redbook, I preferred it always turned OFF.  There is an annoyingly bright, blue LED on the front panel that turns ON when DSEE is ON.  I plan to add some more resistance in series with it to calm it down if I can find which resistor it is.  I hate laser beams in my field of view when I listen!    The green power LED that remains ON when the unit is ON is fine...

----

So without getting to chatty and verbose, there you have it.  Remember, this is just one man’s opinion (and all opinions are biased, true?) of the stock Z1ES player.  What I love about it is that it has HUGE potential to be a stunningly good sounding machine.  I believe 100% that it is worth my time and energy because it is a super solid foundation to work on in terms of both sound, build quality, internal layout, power supply, etc.  I realize that it doesn’t have all the features that some of you (and even I) want.  But I can tell from studying it that it is a specialized design and it is designed to do what it does exceptionally well, and NOT designed to do a lot of things (other features) only “well-enough.  And because the price of it, IMHO, is a bargain for what you get in terms of an overall quality design, so it makes developing a modification package(s) for it a sound idea. 

That is where I'll be going from here.  Thank you for your interest in this journey - more to come soon enough!

Vinnie

[peterlim8]

Just a quick update regarding the power supply regulation:

The analog transformer (T2) had 3 dedicated outputs (windings off the secondary):

1) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 3.3V linear regulator to feed the digital clock section
2) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 3.3V and 5V linear regulator to feed the 3.3V and 5V for the dual dacs
3) Dedicated bridge rectifier and +/- 15V linear regulators to feed the I/V conversion and output stage (SE and BAL)

The digital transformer (T1) has 2 dedicated outputs:

1) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 5V dc-dc regulator that feeds the main +5V to LOTS of other regulators to feed the microprocessor chip,
system controller chip, SDRAMs, FPGA, Audio DSP, Ethernet, etc.
2) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 5V dc-dc regulator that feeds the HDD and USB port.

So we are talking about some serious isolation between the sections.  2 separate Xformers with a total of 5 sections / bridge rectifier stages feeding a boat-load of dedicated regulators! 

Power supply is so important, and the engineering team for this ES product did a great job from what I am seeing....

More soon!

Vinnie

What is the "thing" before the two transformers? It does supply current to the another board.

May by you could offer plug-and-play external power supply (100V to 120V/240V)? Sony didn't sell this Hap in Asia countries (mainly 240V), however people can buy direct or indirectly from Japan (100V), and it's a lot cheap than buying it from UK, Euro or US.

[peterlim8]

...[Also, it looks like you can copy files back to your computer from the Z1ES when you network them.  I have to confirm, but that is interesting because music from one's player can be copied to another's computer, and then onto another player it seems.]...

Yes, you can copy files from Z1ES to any computers using Sony software, win/Mac version. Ans delete the files directly from Z1ES from any computers using software as well.

[peterlim8]

Thanks for the info Vinnie.  I do not have anything on my computer.  My Macbook does not have enough storage space.  It is all on an external hard drive.  That is the only place I have it.  So I guess I still a bit confused.

Transfer the files via Mac to Sony using their software http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=HAPZ1ES&template_id=1&region_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab

[peterlim8]

...I don't run very long interconnects...

Fully-differential design not just about running long interconnect.

...then to a balanced input stage of a preamp or amp, which usually converts it back to SE somewhere anyway...

There are many fully-differential amplifiers available in the market.

[noiseless]

Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further
But on the other hand I fully understand your ambitious goal to mod it to perfection!

Based on peterlim8's suggestion for a universal external 100/120/230 V PSU I also would suggest you to think about ready build and tested upgrade modules for custom DIY installation under your instructions.
I've built Buffalo DAC and Naim-based power amp supplied on modules and I am extremely happy with the final results.
I am located in Europe and shipping the 17kg Sony across the ocean back and forth will add a lot of cost.

Thank you!
Ivo
 
 

[Afterimage]

Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further

I'm pretty sure there is plenty of audiophiles that don't want to go through the maze that is computer audio and  are interested in a DAC/server that is a one box solution that is basically plug and play after initial setup.  What will hold audiophiles back on this unit is that it is good, but not great from a sound quality standpoint.  Vinnie's mod can potentially give them the higher performance sound quality they crave to go with the original concept or the ease of use this unit can provide.

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further
But on the other hand I fully understand your ambitious goal to mod it to perfection!

Based on peterlim8's suggestion for a universal external 100/120/230 V PSU I also would suggest you to think about ready build and tested upgrade modules for custom DIY installation under your instructions.
I've built Buffalo DAC and Naim-based power amp supplied on modules and I am extremely happy with the final results.
I am located in Europe and shipping the 17kg Sony across the ocean back and forth will add a lot of cost.

Thank you!
Ivo

Hi Ivo,

I forgot to say "Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!" (I see you recently joined).

Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further

What will hold audiophiles back on this unit is that it is good, but not great from a sound quality standpoint.  Vinnie's mod can potentially give them the higher performance sound quality they crave to go with the original concept or the ease of use this unit can provide.

AfterImage is correct!  What I have posted in this thread confirms (to me, at least) is that this unit is an excellent candidate for modifications.  It has a solid foundation, but still has room to grow in terms of being getting to the level of being a top-notch source component. 

What I think would be helpful is if I offer a few different stages of modification, probably 3.  I still have a lot of work to do regarding this and feedback is always appreciated.  There might also be a few add-on options that one can apply to any of the 3 stages of mods, such as a remote volume controlled output for those who do not want to use a preamp.  Please let me know if there are other items on your wish list (perhaps a headphone output stage, analog input that passes through the tube output stage and volume, etc.).  I'm not saying I can do anything, but if you plant seeds in the RWA garden it might just grow!

The first thing I plan to explore is just the output stage after the dac chips, and going tubes.  One tube stage board per channel.


Hi Peterlim8,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum! 

Thanks for your posts.  If you don't please, please try to post all your comments into one post at a time if it isn't too much added work.  You can quote from previous comments above and respond all in one post. 

What is the "thing" before the two transformers? It does supply current to the another board.

It is the stand-by transformer.  So it is always ON if the unit is plugged into a live AC outlet, and supplies a voltage to the microprocessor so the unit can turn ON via the App, , the remote or by pressing the momentary push button on the front panel. 

May by you could offer plug-and-play external power supply (100V to 120V/240V)? Sony didn't sell this Hap in Asia countries (mainly 240V), however people can buy direct or indirectly from Japan (100V), and it's a lot cheap than buying it from UK, Euro or US.

At the very least, I could offer an external 240V to 120V converter for this unit for people who are running on 230V and end up buying direct from Japan or North America. 

Fully-differential design not just about running long interconnect.

There are many fully-differential amplifiers available in the market.

True.  I'm not sure how many people would want a modded version with XLR outputs.  I believe I can offer this as well.

I also would suggest you to think about ready build and tested upgrade modules for custom DIY installation under your instructions.
I've built Buffalo DAC and Naim-based power amp supplied on modules and I am extremely happy with the final results.
I am located in Europe and shipping the 17kg Sony across the ocean back and forth will add a lot of cost.

Hi Ivo,

Modifications are going to require drilling the enclosure, desoldering and soldering at various locations, etc.  I'm not sure how many people are comfortable with doing this kind of work because it won't be plug n' plug.  Something to look into, though...

Thanks for all your posts and continued interest - Keep 'em coming! 

Vinnie

[noiseless]

Hi Vinnie, thank you for the welcome!

Just a suggestion for you if you don't mind, please - few years ago I bought modified Sonos player and Behringer DAC directly from the people who modded them. This saved me shipping cost and was much faster too.
Now Sony is much more expensive unit to keep in stock but offering already modified one will be a good option for people from the other part of the world, especially if you can provide a universal PSU too.

About the balanced/unbalanced discussion - I suppose that for the BAL-SE conversion Sony uses some OP amp based solution. If you can offer a discrete one with its own supply this could be a good option too, IMHO.
Cheers,
Ivo 

[Vinnie R.]

Just a suggestion for you if you don't mind, please - few years ago I bought modified Sonos player and Behringer DAC directly from the people who modded them. This saved me shipping cost and was much faster too.
Now Sony is much more expensive unit to keep in stock but offering already modified one will be a good option for people from the other part of the world, especially if you can provide a universal PSU too.

Hi noiseless,

I can do this - I already do with the portable Astell & Kern players.

As for the SE/BAL discussion - I'm sure I can offer a solution for both and have the customer pick. 


All,

Just a few things I didn't mention yet:

The Sony App for the iPad/iPhone works very well.  It is very responsive and intuitive.  I like the search by track feature that shows the file type for all the songs - nice touch!  You can even turn the Sony OFF from this App, and adjust the volume that you can have learned for your amp and saved in memory.  You just need to connect the "IR Blaster" in and have it near your IR sensor of your amp.  So the App could control your music and volume to your amp!

Also - Internet Radio works great, too.  I didn't spend too much time with this, but there are some higher streaming rate stations (320kbps) that do sound quite good.  There is an Audiophile Jazz one from Greece, and Linn Records station.  And you can search for local stations, NPR, or whatever you like.

More to come...

[kngale1]

Vinnie, can you get JazzRadio.com on internet radio?   The ONLY reason I'm using a SB Touch is for internet radio JazzRadio.com ... digital out to my Dac.

[smargo]

The Sony App for the iPad/iPhone works very well.  It is very responsive and intuitive.  I like the search by track feature that shows the file type for all the songs - nice touch!  You can even turn the Sony OFF from this App, and adjust the volume that you can have learned for your amp and saved in memory.  You just need to connect the "IR Blaster" in and have it near your IR sensor of your amp.  So the App could control your music and volume to your amp!

also you can control the on/off dsd upsampling and the on/of dsee, synchronizing and repeat functions, gapless playback and a myriad of other things

[Vinnie R.]

also you can control the on/off dsd upsampling and the on/of dsee, synchronizing and repeat functions, gapless playback and a myriad of other things

I see that now, thanks!  I love the clean and simple layout of the App, as well as the front panel of this unit. 

Speaking of front panel, I think I found a misprint.     The model number on the front panel is HAP-ZiES, but everywhere else (website, manual, etc), it is HAP-Z1ES.   No big deal... just thought I'd mention it.

Vinnie, can you get JazzRadio.com on internet radio?   The ONLY reason I'm using a SB Touch is for internet radio JazzRadio.com ... digital out to my Dac.

YES - I confirmed last night that it has around 30 JazzRadio.com stations, just like on the website. 

Vinnie

[srb]

Speaking of front panel, I think I found a misprint.     The model number on the front panel is HAP-ZiES, but everywhere else (website, manual, etc), it is HAP-Z1ES.   No big deal... just thought I'd mention it.

The pictures I've looked at read HAP-Z1 ES.  Either you have a rare misprinted one or perhaps there is a bit of missing silkscreen paint in the middle of the  "1" making it look like an "i"?

 

[OzarkTom]

Mucho great info Vinnie.

And if someone is willing to send their Sony to Aluminati Sound, they just might design a fancy faceplate and offer it to anyone else that wants one.

I hope I am not stepping on Vinnie's toes here.

[Afterimage]

The faceplate on the Sony already looks pretty nice, IMO.

[kngale1]

Vinnie, THANKS for all the info ... great stuff! 

[Vinnie R.]

The pictures I've looked at read HAP-Z1 ES.  Either you have a rare misprinted one or perhaps there is a bit of missing silkscreen paint in the middle of the  "1" making it look like an "i"?

Hi srb,

Well, this unit (smargo's) is definitely an 'i" - so I guess his is going to be a rare, collectible edition version! 

And if someone is willing to send their Sony to Aluminati Sound, they just might design a fancy faceplate and offer it to anyone else that wants one.

I hope I am not stepping on Vinnie's toes here.

Hi Tom,

This can be great if someone what's me to add a volume control to the front panel, and even a headphone output jack. 

I believe I'd be able to install a remote volume control (where you'd use the Sony's remote or the App) to control it, without having to drill
the front.  But if you want to have a physical knob to turn on the front, we'd need to look into front panel machining.  Same is true for a headphone jack installed on the front.  Installation on the rear wouldn't be a problem because there is usable space, but it wouldn't be as convenient as having it on the front panel.

A few remote volume control ideas:

- Bent Audio Alps -  I use this in our products and it sounds surprisingly good, and the remote control is nice and precise.  It is also super quiet, linear regulated, and the controller IC goes into sleep mode when there are no commands. 

- Bent Autoformers - I haven't tried them and this would cost a lot more $$$, but their reputation is solid.  John Chapman is a great guy to work with as well.  In my experience, he is one of the nicest and honest people in the business!  And he has a forum here on Audiocircle.

- Tortuga Audio LDRx - A different approach to volume control using Light Dependent Resistors (LDR's).  Morten also has a forum right here on Audiocircle.  I actually have one of his LDR3x boards that I've been meaning to try. 

- Goldpont (or DACT) stepped attenuator - For those who prefer a resistive stepped attenuator, Goldpoint in California (and DACT from Denmark) make nice ones, and Bent Audio also makes  a remote control stepper motor kit for them!

- Other... feel free to mention other great ones that I missed and you'd like to see in there.


I'll leave the discussion about adding a volume control and headphone stage to you guys.  Chime in if you would be interested!

For now, I'm going to start working on the tube output stage, and we'll go from there.  I ordered my own HAP-Z1ES, which should
arrive later this week.  It will be helpful in making comparisons between the stock and modded unit, feeding into an Isabella preamp to do the
A/B switching.

The faceplate on the Sony already looks pretty nice, IMO.

I agree - it's a really nice layout and feels solid (except for the knob which is plastic).  I'll try a few different knobs to see if they look better, but
it's just a cosmetic thing.  When I have the mods done I will take pics, and take a few pics with an alternate knob.

Keep the discussion going - This has been a lot of fun so far...!

Vinnie