[Flashman]

I realize that what I am about to say has been discussed, debated, refuted, ridiculed, etc., sometimes ad nauseum, but I plan to start a thread to resolve whether the newer MacBook Air models (not interested to discuss the Mac mini as I am not interested in this implementation) can make an excellent music server.  I am starting this thread both because I hope soon to purchase some new equipment and also to help inform others.

My ultimate goal: have a dedicated, simple-to-use, two-channel audio system with a minimum of components and wires in our living room. 

To begin, an industry member on this board with a solid reputation told me that a MacBook Air with 8G RAM and a 512GB solid state hard drive makes an excellent music server.  (In fact, his words were "the best music server -- ever!")  I am thinking about purchasing such a unit and lashing it by USB cable to an integrated Hegel H80, which has a DAC with USB input (24/96) and SPDIF inputs (24/192).  For playing hi-rez files, I would install Audirvana, which I would run in either native mode or in the background with iTunes. 

One huge advantage of the MBA is that is can run about 10 hours on battery operation, so spurious noise generated by AC would be eliminated.  Plus, there are no moving parts on the 512GB solid state drive, so there's another way to eliminate noise.  I recognize that for many the 512GB drive would be small so I would plan to add a USB-powered drive for additional music.  I know I could stream wireless to a NAS, which could be a future option.

The MBA/Hegel combo would be in my living room, as I mentioned, with only a pair of speakers attached.  I am looking for a simple system that even my wife -- a non-techie approaching a Luddite  -- can operate with ease.

I would appreciate any thoughts from people who have implemented a MBA for this type of setup. 

-- Do you think that the display on the MBA cause any noise problems?  Do you get decent reproduction from your USB connection? 
-- I probably would not immediately step up to natively playing files above 24/96 because I do not want to buy a USB/SPDIF converter.  But I heard someone say you could use the headphone out on the MBA as an optical (SPDIF) out.  Any thoughts on this implementation?
-- How about ease of use?  I understand the MBA boots up quickly.  Could my wife simply tap on iTunes and easily navigate the system?  This may sound insanely idiotic to some but my wife has not yet mastered even this simple stuff.  Of course, I could get her started on a control app but then she would have to get the system started, and now we are back to ground zero!

My alternate to this system is the new Sony hi-res player -- HAP-1ZES -- and Sony integrated amp -- TA-1AES, which has its own ecosystem and is probably very easy for the person playing it (and perhaps somewhat more complicated for the person setting it up and maintaining it).  My wife would probably opt for this system, as it is elegant and easy to operate.  But it wouldn't have the flexibility (I don't think you can play Spotify, for instance, plus I could use the MBA as a second computer when needed). 

Finally, any comments from those who have heard the Sony and who have also implemented a MBA air solution as I have described?  Not talking about ease of operation here; just sound quality.

Let the games begin! 

[JohnR]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the question... on the one hand, you say you want an Air as a music server and won't consider a Mini, and then you ask if the display in the Air will cause noise problems. Why not just side-step the problem and get a computer without a display? (That would be called a mini).

I don't have anything against the Air, I love it (or I did, when I had one) but I can't understand why it would be purchased specifically for a dedicated music server.

[Flashman]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the question... on the one hand, you say you want an Air as a music server and won't consider a Mini, and then you ask if the display in the Air will cause noise problems. Why not just side-step the problem and get a computer without a display? (That would be called a mini).

I don't have anything against the Air, I love it (or I did, when I had one) but I can't understand why it would be purchased specifically for a dedicated music server.

JohnR, you raise a good point.  I am looking for something aesthetically pleasing, with a minimum of components, and easy to operate by my wife.  If we had the MBA/Hegel solution, she would push the power button on the Hegel and then turn on the MBA, which would boot in a matter of seconds.  She could then navigate to iTunes and start a playlist.  She could raise or lower the volume, or even advance to the next song, by punching the Hegel remote. 

On the other hand, with a Mac mini, you would need a display (a third item to add to our proposed system if we used the mini).  I know, you will probably tell me to operate the Mac mini with an iDevice but we are talking simplicity here for my wife.  Also, we would initially operate the MBA with its built-in storage (a fourth item to add to our proposed system if we used the mini).  Finally, I have heard time and again about the beauty of battery-only operation, which would not be possible with the Mac mini.

I have nothing against the Mac mini and have heard of many successful implementations of it.  Just wanted to discuss the MBA here.   

[JohnR]

You do have a really good point there. (Ease of use / accessiblity by other family members.)

[fiveoclockfriday]

You might want to consider that setup, but using a NAS drive to store the music. You could save money on the size of the SSD that way, and you can easily (and cheaply) have more than 500gb of music that way. It also opens you up to maybe adding players in other rooms or something down the road.

You could still have the exact same workflow you described, you would just tell iTunes to get its library from the NAS. It would be transparent a user after initial setup.

[Flashman]

You might want to consider that setup, but using a NAS drive to store the music. You could save money on the size of the SSD that way, and you can easily (and cheaply) have more than 500gb of music that way. It also opens you up to maybe adding players in other rooms or something down the road.

You could still have the exact same workflow you described, you would just tell iTunes to get its library from the NAS. It would be transparent a user after initial setup.

fiveoclockfriday, I had not thought about a NAS for multiple room play.  Thanks.  I am still intrigued with the max SSD on the MBA for having the best sound reproduction in our living room.  I have heard that pulling from a SSD is inherently better than from spinning disk.  But my guess is that there are no studies on this... just impressions from people.

[bladesmith]

Flash,

The SSD is the best way to go, obviously. You have that covered.

You might consider getting some nice interconnects. 

If you let the display 'sleep' thru the 'energy saving' option.  I think you can make the display sleep after 1 minute. So display noise would be nulled. If in fact there is any. ( The odds that you get a noisy display is small. Possible, but very small.  )

I would think the only thing left, would be the quality of the actual music being streamed or played. Everyone has there opinion on that. Options are almost endless.

Maybe others could chime in.

Good luck,  hope I didn't kill your thread.

[Flashman]

Flash,

The SSD is the best way to go, obviously. You have that covered.

You might consider getting some nice interconnects. 

If you let the display 'sleep' thru the 'energy saving' option.  I think you can make the display sleep after 1 minute. So display noise would be nulled. If in fact there is any. ( The odds that you get a noisy display is small. Possible, but very small.  )

I would think the only thing left, would be the quality of the actual music being streamed or played. Everyone has there opinion on that. Options are almost endless.

Maybe others could chime in.

Good luck,  hope I didn't kill your thread.

Bladesmith, naw, you didn't kill the thread.  I seem to always find value in each response.  For instance, I didn't think about the energy saving option for the display.  As for interconnects, that's a subject for a separate thread.  But I have some ideas!   

[this_is_vv]

I have an MBA lying around too...also have a NAS with all my music... need to read these posts...

V

[jarcher]

Flashman : would be happy to make some suggestions as to how to optimize a MBA as a music server, but I think it would be a disservice to you to not address your assumption that a MBA makes the best server per your requirements.  The two main issues being ease of use / convenience, and the other, sound quality.

As to the convenience issue : it's been my experience that the most user friendly way for the non-technically inclined to operate a modern stereo system is to use a smart phone or tablet as the control mechanism : particularly whatever the user already owns and is familiar with.  So, for example, if your spouse or other users have iPhones or iPads, then the free apple Remote app. 

To use these applications - whether on an apple or non-apple device - it's not important whether you're using a laptop or desktop.  The streamer / server becomes functionally invisible to the user.  I personally think a spouse / child / guest etc would much prefer to use their existing portable device than trying to navigate iTunes or whatever on someones laptop. And it's in their pocket / purse and they don't have to leave their chair.

As to the quality issue : there is a reason why high end "audiophile" streamers and severs are not typically based on laptops. Obviously if you already have a laptop, or want a dual purpose machine, and don't want to spend the money on something more dedicated to music serving / streaming, you use a laptop. But it is not the optimal device as a music streamer or server, nor often the most cost effective one. And it sounds like your thinking of buying one vs repurposing one you already have.

The main reason for the sub optimal nature of laptops as music streamer / servers as far as I understand it is noise.  There is a reason why audiophile streamer / servers tend to be stripped down machines with as few unnecessary components as possible.  And the reason for this is that these components introduce noise into the signal path which is audibly noticeable.  Your run of the mill laptop is potentially one of the worst offenders in this regard, a complex machine with many parts producing noise in close proximity with each other : screen, processor, circuit board, battery, etc.  Yes : even the battery.  Just because something is battery powered doesn't mean that in itself is superior to a well executed AC power based unit.  And you can bet that the implementation of a battery in a MBA or any laptop is designed to maximize power & duration over other considerations - particularly audio quality.

In sum : I know you want to hear about how to optimize a MBA as a server, and will next make my suggestions : but I strongly recommend you reconsider using a laptop and instead consider a desktop, whether a mac mini or even something non-apple based, some of which are even sold by or offered here by AC members, such as HAL's music servers, Sonoteer, etc.  I think they will provide the same level of convenience, much better sound quality, and potentially even save you money.  E.g an entry level mac mini is 40% less than an entry level MBA, and even one of HAL's servers costs less than an entry level MBA.

Optimize a MBA :

(1) Use USB, not optical / toslink out of MBA.  Toslink is more of a convenience feature and not optimized for sound quality and introduces an additional conversion process.  It's been my experience with Mac's that the USB sounds better than the toslink optical.

For the moment USB seems to be the preferred interface between a computer based server and a DAC.  USB cables between the computer & the DAC do make a difference, but you don't have to get crazy expensive.  My current favorite is an XLO UltraPLUS, though unfortunately XLO has gone out of business (meaning you might be able to get it on closeout).  Wireworld makes decent reasonably priced entry-level USB cables. 

(2) Keep the screen turned off as much as possible.  If you're using a smartphone / tablet controller, the lid can be kept closed keeping the screen off.  Not as good as having no screen, but it helps.   

(3) Use music player software that has a "memory play" mode, such as Pure Music, Ammara, etc.  By placing the track into memory you're reducing many of the noxious effects of a conventional hard drive.  I'd say to such an extent to where it becomes questionable whether a SSD upgrade is even necessary.  If the track is always going to be put into memory where its free of HD noise and more directly in the signal path, what would then be the advantage of having it stored on a pricey SSD?  I'd use SSD only if you want to have snappier general performance of the operating system, in which case you can have a small SSD for the OS & programs, and store all the files on large cheap external conventional HD's.  This is what many even audiophile streamers do : i.e. small SSD for OS / programs w/ external storage.

(4) More to the above : the suggestion of using a Network Attached Storage (NAS) is a good one.  If you're going now or in the future to have multiple devices access / play the tracks, a NAS makes life a lot more convenient.  If I were starting over again, that's what I would do.  This way you have just one library to manage where you can tip tracks to & store them.  And also just one HD to worry about backing up.  A NAS that contains 2 HD's, with the 2nd as back up for the first (RAID), being ideal.

Hope the above helps!

[Flashman]

Flashman : would be happy to make some suggestions as to how to optimize a MBA as a music server, but I think it would be a disservice to you to not address your assumption that a MBA makes the best server per your requirements.  The two main issues being ease of use / convenience, and the other, sound quality.

As to the convenience issue : it's been my experience that the most user friendly way for the non-technically inclined to operate a modern stereo system is to use a smart phone or tablet as the control mechanism : particularly whatever the user already owns and is familiar with.  So, for example, if your spouse or other users have iPhones or iPads, then the free apple Remote app. 

To use these applications - whether on an apple or non-apple device - it's not important whether you're using a laptop or desktop.  The streamer / server becomes functionally invisible to the user.  I personally think a spouse / child / guest etc would much prefer to use their existing portable device than trying to navigate iTunes or whatever on someones laptop. And it's in their pocket / purse and they don't have to leave their chair.

Jarcher, Hmmmm... you have me thinking now regarding the Mac mini.  Can you actually operate the mini from a tablet or smart phone without having to have a display?  That might solve one big problem.  And I guess I could have a NAS operating remotely, so it doesn't ruin the look of the living room.  Okay, then, maybe I should consider a Mac mini as another option.  As for one of HAL's servers, I don't know about this device but will check the forum.  Still thinking about the possibility of the Sony hi-res components, too but recognize there are some downsides to that solution.  Many thanks for your thoughts!

[jarcher]

You can certainly operate iTunes "headless" with the free Remote application for iPhone / iPad, which is what I do.  I usually leave my mac mini on & only turn on the display (in this case it's part of my home theater system) if I need to do program / security updates or if iTunes / Pure Music crashes. 

You can have total general access to any mac indirectly from another mac (if you own another Mac) if they are on the same network using the "screen share" function in Finder. 

Alternatively some people have applications on their iPad / tablets that allow them to remotely connect to and control their macs as if the tablet was a touch screen controller for the mac.  These are called "VNC Clients".  I've tried "VNC Viewer" which is free on the Apple App Store, but there are many options at all different price points & people have their favorites.  I don't remember the specific threads, but here on AC folks have mentioned the different VNC clients they like, whether for Apple or non-Apple hardware. 

Hope that helps. 

I should mention that in non-Apple gear there's another option I didn't previously mention that's being discussed currently here on AC, which is the Salk Stream Player which I think goes for $1K (without internal storage).  I've seen & heard one at the last Capital Audiofest and was impressed with it : compact / attractive / sounds good / and simple to operate with mPad application on an iPad.  If when I got started with this I didn't already have a Mac Mini to repurpose as a media server and was aware of the Salk Stream Player or something similar, I would have given it serious consideration.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124179.0

[Flashman]

I should mention that in non-Apple gear there's another option I didn't previously mention that's being discussed currently here on AC, which is the Salk Stream Player which I think goes for $1K (without internal storage).  I've seen & heard one at the last Capital Audiofest and was impressed with it : compact / attractive / sounds good / and simple to operate with mPad application on an iPad.  If when I got started with this I didn't already have a Mac Mini to repurpose as a media server and was aware of the Salk Stream Player or something similar, I would have given it serious consideration.

jarcher, Thanks for the add'l info.  I will check out the Salk.  Sounds quite interesting! 

[Flashman]

In sum : I know you want to hear about how to optimize a MBA as a server, and will next make my suggestions : but I strongly recommend you reconsider using a laptop and instead consider a desktop, whether a mac mini or even something non-apple based, some of which are even sold by or offered here by AC members, such as HAL's music servers, Sonoteer, etc.  I think they will provide the same level of convenience, much better sound quality, and potentially even save you money.  E.g an entry level mac mini is 40% less than an entry level MBA, and even one of HAL's servers costs less than an entry level MBA.

Jarcher got me thinking beyond the MBA to a headless device controlled by a slick app, which might be the most user-friendly mode for my wife while providing the best sound reproduction that I desire.  I did a bit of searching on the Internet and found lots of stuff, but one that has me intrigued is Bluesound, which is produced by the parent company of NAD and PSB.  They have a slew of products but one that seems quite interesting is the Node (http://www.bluesound.com/products/node) for only $499.  It can play hi-rez files up to 24/196 and stream Internet radio.  Interestingly, it does not have USB out but instead has S/PDIF (optical) out, which means I could connect it to the hi-rez capable DAC in the Hegel H80 integrated amp.  That way I could get full 24/196 vs using USB, which is restricted to 24/96.  I would connect the Node to a NAS with all my music.  Apparently, they have a slick app for both iOS and Android.  Since this is a Mac forum, I may set up a different topic on AudioCircle to discuss this option.

[Quiet Earth]

I don't know Flashman, I think you should probably stick to your original plan if you want your wife to participate. Ask her which method she would rather use and make it work for her. Otherwise, you will end up with a pile of gear and an unhappy wife. And it probably won't sound all that much better (different?) either. Maybe I am wrong. Just a gut feel.

I have a couple of honest and sincere questions on this subject if it is OK to tag along.

  Your run of the mill laptop is potentially one of the worst offenders in this regard, a complex machine with many parts producing noise in close proximity with each other : screen, processor, circuit board, battery, etc. 

How is a Mac mini clearly less noisy than a MBA in real terms? I mean, a Mac mini is also a complex machine with many noise producing parts in close proximity to one another. I don't see a real difference here.

  By placing the track into memory you're reducing many of the noxious effects of a conventional hard drive.

How does memory play eliminate the noxious effects of a conventional hard drive? If the music originated from a noxious component, shouldn't it still have the same noxious embedded signature when played back by a superior component? I really don't understand how moving things around in the digital domain can improve or repair timing or noise issues. It seems like the more you mess with it, the further you get away from what it was to begin with. That has been my experience anyway.

And lastly, streaming. If you really want to hear the best sound, isn't streaming just another conversion process? I would think that streaming would be on the "avoid" list for best sound quality. It is certainly more convenient, I do understand that.

I know, I still have a lot to learn. I do want to get back into this though. I hope to learn from other people as well.

[mr_bill]

Don't stray from your initial thought of MBA.  You get use of a laptop this way too, plus it's easy to run and you can still use the Remote app with it.  Run Audirvana or Pure Music.  I've heard MBPs sound fantastic on high end equipment.

Audiophile mumbo jumbo gets us steered away from reality sometimes. 

[skifasterslc]

flashman, thx for the info on bluesound node, that looks very appealing to me.  I have had my eye on the olive one, but who knows when that will come?

one of my concerns is jitter in the system and cant find any measurements on the Node. 
thx

[Flashman]

flashman, thx for the info on bluesound node, that looks very appealing to me.  I have had my eye on the olive one, but who knows when that will come?

one of my concerns is jitter in the system and cant find any measurements on the Node. 
thx

I am a bit concerned about jitter, too, mainly because as I understand that TOSlink may be a bit suspect in this fashion.  But apparently the DAC in the Hegel H80, which I would use, has a good jitter rejection strategy.  Well, one more path to inspect!

[jarcher]

I don't know Flashman, I think you should probably stick to your original plan if you want your wife to participate. Ask her which method she would rather use and make it work for her. Otherwise, you will end up with a pile of gear and an unhappy wife. And it probably won't sound all that much better (different?) either. Maybe I am wrong. Just a gut feel.

I have a couple of honest and sincere questions on this subject if it is OK to tag along.

How is a Mac mini clearly less noisy than a MBA in real terms? I mean, a Mac mini is also a complex machine with many noise producing parts in close proximity to one another. I don't see a real difference here.

How does memory play eliminate the noxious effects of a conventional hard drive? If the music originated from a noxious component, shouldn't it still have the same noxious embedded signature when played back by a superior component? I really don't understand how moving things around in the digital domain can improve or repair timing or noise issues. It seems like the more you mess with it, the further you get away from what it was to begin with. That has been my experience anyway.

And lastly, streaming. If you really want to hear the best sound, isn't streaming just another conversion process? I would think that streaming would be on the "avoid" list for best sound quality. It is certainly more convenient, I do understand that.

I know, I still have a lot to learn. I do want to get back into this though. I hope to learn from other people as well.

Beg to disagree : if Flashman is the primary user, and presumably the primary payor, then the choice should primarily meet his needs.  And furthermore I don't see how paying 40% more for a MBA vs a Mac Mini would in anyway improve on the control ease if both presumably would use the Remote application to control iTunes. 

You are right : there's still a lot going on within the chassis of a Mac Mini, but less than in a MBA, which is why it costs less.  No screen, no battery / charging circuitry, etc.  Unless you need to take it on the road for some reason, I don't see why you should pay more for things you don't need and can potentially have deletrious effects on the sound quality.  I think laptops are often used at audio shows because of that portability / convenience factor, and because the advent of dedicated media players is fairly recent.  But the most recent CES showed that dedicated purist media players & servers is where a lot of the attention is shifting to, and for good reason. 

As to the benefits of Memory Play mode in players such as Pure Music, Amarra, etc, I won't pretend to be an expert on all the science of how improvements are realized vs playing back the track from a conventional hard disk.  In auditioning different media players I found with my macs that using Memory Play mode made the biggest difference - primarily better detail retrieval and an overall cleaner sound.  Reviews from Stereophile / The Absolute Sound / etc that I read re : Pure Music have also reached that same conclusion about Memory Play mode.  And presumably the benefits are not limited to Memory Play mode w/ just Pure Music, but also all players that offer it.

In the context of spending less money on the software (e.g $129 for Pure Music) vs relatively expensive solid state drives, presumably buffering the whole track to RAM offers all the potential benefits of playing it back from a SSD at a fraction of the cost.  And you get the additional benefits of the superior playback software vs iTunes as well as other features that may be of interest (e.g. playing DSD files, etc). 

My limited understanding is that placing the entire track in memory offers among other things instance access to the track without the problems inherent in having the data flow in real time from a conventional hard disk.  If there's much further interest in this I can go digging around to find a more definitive technical explanation by writing to Channel D (maker's of Pure Music) or searching about the internet.  But perhaps that's better done in a separate thread vs this one which is about Macbook Air's. 

As for "streaming", I'm not if this remark is related to the recommendation of a Network Attached Storage (NAS) or other non built in storage.  With these there isn't "streaming" going on in the sense of say internet streaming from Spotify etc.  It's just using and accessing storage that's accessed over a local area network, usually ethernet, and there's not much of any functional difference vs storing the media on a hard drive within the computer.  In fact, it seems that predominately the ethernet interface is becoming the preferred one for media players as more and more people choose to keep their large media libraries in centrally located / accessible drives / NAS's.  Think the Bryston BDP-2, the Salk Streamplayer, etc. 

Hope that clarifies a bit my previous remarks. 

[jarcher]

I did a bit of searching on the Internet and found lots of stuff, but one that has me intrigued is Bluesound, which is produced by the parent company of NAD and PSB.  They have a slew of products but one that seems quite interesting is the Node (http://www.bluesound.com/products/node) for only $499.  It can play hi-rez files up to 24/196 and stream Internet radio.  Interestingly, it does not have USB out but instead has S/PDIF (optical) out, which means I could connect it to the hi-rez capable DAC in the Hegel H80 integrated amp.  That way I could get full 24/196 vs using USB, which is restricted to 24/96.  I would connect the Node to a NAS with all my music.  Apparently, they have a slick app for both iOS and Android.  Since this is a Mac forum, I may set up a different topic on AudioCircle to discuss this option.

I saw the Bluesound product review as well - I think on Audiostream - and it looked like good value for the all the features it offered.  I only wish that it had RCA coax digital out or USB as I have to admit I'm somewhat biased against optical / Toslink vs these other interfaces.  If you do decide to get this or the Node, would be interested to hear your thoughts in another thread.  I'm always looking for reasonably priced alternatives to Mac Mini's or Squeezeboxes as media players / servers.