[Don_S]

Thanks for all the information.

I am short and find the "comfort" toilets anything but.  I have a friend with a comfort toilet and when I visit for the weekend I swear I will never own one.  Not only are they uncomfortable for me, they are "unsatisfying" as well.

Toto toilets are out of my price range so I will consider the Kohler and American Standard.  I have installed standard versions of both brands in the past but I do not think I have any experience in their water saving versions.   I do not remember what brand I installed for my parents.  My dad would have picked out the cheapest available. I will use round toilets. That is what I am used to and there is not much room in either room but one is especially tight.  My toilets and tub/showers are in separate rooms from the vanities.

Raising the counter tops is a good suggestion and I wish I could do that.  Both vanities run wall-to-wall and have electrical outlets and switches mounted too low.  I will have to stick with 31 1/8" vs the 34 1/2" cabinets.

Going with quartz tops with under mount sinks. Natural maple cabinets with raised-panel doors. Brushed nickel faucets and lights.  And yes, solid brass bolts and wax rings with extender cones.

[thunderbrick]

Well, it depends on how you look at it.

"Look before you flush.  You may have dropped your wallet"

Plagiarized from Mad Magazine, c. 1965

[thunderbrick]

and have electrical outlets and switches mounted too low.  I will have to stick with 31 1/8" vs the 34 1/2" cabinets.

Move the outlets and switches.  You'll LOVE the taller cabinet.  Worth every penny! 

[Don_S]

Easy for you to say.  Hard for me to do. The four boxes are staying right where they are.

Move the outlets and switches.   

[mcgsxr]

Interesting.  I never considered what height the counters should be, but then again as a short guy perhaps I never do!

All 3 vanities in my house are 33 inches (floor to top of counter).  2 are granite, the basement one is quartz.

I agree JLM, the ability to learn to fix one toilet and roll that out across all others in the "fleet" will be ideal.  The house is around 18 years old now, and there are still 2 original toilets.  As they fail, or as my wife demands, I will flip them over into the dual flush American Standard ones.

I happen to like the elongated bowl and slightly higher height - odd as I am short, but I find them comfortable.

Better than squatting over the floor toilets in northern india with bucket flush I used in the mid 90's for sure!

[chip]

Since we are doing BR remodel as well.....is this a decent toilet? American Standard Cadet 3 FloWise 2-piece Complete No-Tools 1.28 GPF High Efficiency Round Front Toilet in White

[randytsuch]

I was thinking about this thread as I used my Toto toilet this morning.   

IMHO, the issue with low flow toilets is how they handle "solid" waste.  Any toilet will do fine for "liquid" waste.

The Toto somehow generates a more powerful flush using the same amount of water, so it does a better job with "larger" loads.

I know they are not cheap, but in the long run I think they are worth the extra money.

[chip]

Doing some reading these seem to be popular models -
       
   TOTO CTS744SG-01 Drake $190
   American Standard 2034.014.020 $370
   American Standard 2886.216.020 $250
        American Standard 3381.216.020 $199
   KOHLER K-3609-0 Cimarron - $232

[Peter J]

Some food for thought: You can get some of the benefit of higher countertop by using a vessel sink and tall faucet, but that's a whole 'nuther story.

Interesting you say the Toto is more expensive. In my experience the Kohlers are in the same range. Haven't installed an American Standard in some time so maybe they've improved, but years ago they were some of the worst flushers. There is science to all this. You're flushing the same amount of "stuff"  with less water, a lot less. 1.3 or 1.6 gallon vs.  5 if you have old toilets.  The sq. inches of water surface is also important, especially to the toilet cleaner of the family. The bigger the water spot the less tendency for "skid marks". Old toilets were shaped like great big mixing bowls, modern ones are more funnel shaped. What Toto figured out was that if that funnel was tulip shaped just under the water surface, they could have both a big water spot and good flushing efficiency. I recommend to clients what I would use myself and my experience with Toto has been excellent, but enough of that!

I'd recommend you get at least a light colored stain on your maple cabinets. Most all clear finishes amber over time and on unstained maple it appears as pale yellow. Trust me on this, I've looked at many kitchens and bathrooms with this happening and there's no easy fix and it's just plain ugly.  Had people known this would happen, I doubt anyone would choose  it a second time..

[Don_S]

Peter J,

Good point on color change.  Do you think honey would be a good choice or is that still too light? The American Woodmark cabinets I am considering have paint finishes as well as stain and what they call a glaze. I am not sure if the glaze is just referring to gloss.

I looked a new homes for a while and the darker cabinets were a big turn off.  Even the medium brown cabinets were not appealing.  I like to see grain.  Also, getting something in brown challenges my color coordination skills tremendously.  My primary modality is definitely auditory and not visual.

I definitely want an under-mount sink. I have an under-mount sink in my kitchen and can't imagine having to clean up splashed water all the time if I had a surface mount. The faucets I like have a modest swan neck spout.

[Don_S]

Experience please, this one is also on my short list.

Since we are doing BR remodel as well.....is this a decent toilet? American Standard Cadet 3 FloWise 2-piece Complete No-Tools 1.28 GPF High Efficiency Round Front Toilet in White

[Don_S]

I just came back from Home Depot.

Prices between HD and Lowes for cabinets is not a significant difference. Any experience with American Woodmark (HD) vs Shenandoah (Lowes)?

[chip]

I just came back from Home Depot.

Prices between HD and Lowes for cabinets is not a significant difference. Any experience with American Woodmark (HD) vs Shenandoah (Lowes)?

Which cabinets you looking at?

We are doing two two upstairs bathroom. Hallway BR everything but the Shower New flooring, cabinet, countertop, sink, faucet, toilet. MasterBR new countertop/sink in main area. New Floor/toilet in shower area.

[Don_S]

Chip,

Both brands are partial overlay, square, solid raised-panel maple doors.

Home--Depot American Woodmark Newport
Lowes--Shenandoah Grove

I have 12' of cabinets so it adds up. 

[Peter J]

Peter J,

Good point on color change.  Do you think honey would be a good choice or is that still too light? The American Woodmark cabinets I am considering have paint finishes as well as stain and what they call a glaze. I am not sure if the glaze is just referring to gloss.

The lightest of stains offered will mitigate the issue. Just a slight color shift towards brown makes all the difference in maple, and maple's the only hardwood I've seen this become an issue because of it's native light color.

Glazing or glaze is likely referring to a step in the finishing process whereby some (usually contrasting) colorant is left behind in the nooks and crannies of the doors, then clear finish over the top of  that. A similar process used to be referred to as "antiquing". It adds highlights and makes things look a little worn in, but not worn out like some aging techniques.

The glossiness is commonly referred to sheen, and on the manufacturing level is expressed as a percentage which has to do with reflected light. Sheen has been getting progressively less shiny over the last few years, most of what you see is 20% or 30% often called satin or eggshell and in some cases matte which is closer to 10% sheen.


Are you bored yet?

[Don_S]

Peter,

I visited HD again and saw the "glazed" doors.  They look "dirty" to me.  I figure I will start out clean (plain) and develop a "natural glaze" over the years. 

Cabinet guy at HD told me the new varnishes won't yellow.

I am not bored but I am tired.  Wish there was a honey to give my plastic to and tell her whatever she wants--don't bother me.

[mcgsxr]

The 2 American Standard toilets I have installed are the Cadet 3 ones with the elongated bowl, and are the taller models.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/cadet3-deacutecor-dual-flush-complete/813045?gclid=CO2f0_Xx_LwCFQ5gMgodwFkAsA&ef_id=UqXKoQAAAYBpmqbR:20140306024445:s

After a year of use (one is in MY bathroom) that I am happy with their ability to "clear the bowl" with the bigger flush.  I am happy to save the water with 3 females peeing all the time too!

[Peter J]

Peter,

I visited HD again and saw the "glazed" doors.  They look "dirty" to me.  I figure I will start out clean (plain) and develop a "natural glaze" over the years. 

Cabinet guy at HD told me the new varnishes won't yellow.

I am not bored but I am tired.  Wish there was a honey to give my plastic to and tell her whatever she wants--don't bother me.

Well, Don, he's just wrong about yellowing. Finish manufacturers have made better and better finishes, but if it's oil or solvent based, (it's probably conversion varnish), it yellows. Only exception to that is some water based finishes, but they have their own issues, and just not common in industry at this point. So you gotta ask yourself, are you gonna trust the online Bozo or the Home Depot Bozo.

As far as handing over your plastic, there are certainly people who'll do that for you. They're called designers, and come with their own brand of baggage

[Don_S]

As far as handing over your plastic, there are certainly people who'll do that for you. They're called designers, and come with their own brand of baggage

I need a designer who comes with "benefits". 

After picking out cabinets and counters and doing preliminary checking on sinks, faucets, lights, and toilets I went online and started reading customer ratings for American Woodmark and Shenandoah cabinets.  I was appalled!!!  On some forums there were as many 1-star ratings as 5-star and not much in the middle.  Numerous complaints of uneven finish, doors and drawers that did not fit, broken hinges, cracked wood, etc.  One customer complained that his "natural" cabinets looked pink.  I am not a pink person.

Now I am scared to place an order.  I need six cabinets.  Odds are that at least one will be messed up and put the entire project on hold. Dang, they look so good in the store displays.

[Peter J]

Don, what you see is not always what you get.  Many modular cabinet manufacturers have figured out that if it looks pretty, it's perceived as good quality. And in cabinets, 90% of the pretty is in the doors.  Now that I think about it, that's true of lots of things...including audio gear.

Good cabinetry is expensive. The stuff at the home centers is middle of the road at best, because that's where the sweet spot is in DIY, which is their main market.  Wouldn't make any sense for them to carry the hi-end stuff 'cuz that customer isn't coming into their store. Think of Best Buy and electronics...kinda the same.
 
I don't know how much of this, if any, you're doing yourself but if you're paying Home Depot to do it, the people who work on it are subs, and that's a hit or miss proposition sometimes. I've been approached by them to do same, but it just looks like another layer of crap to me.  I'm an anomaly as far as contractors go though, for every twenty schlocks you find one like me.

In the overall scheme of things I suppose I occupy the space between Big Box stores and foofy designers. Gotta be some like me in your area, if you just want to turn the reins over to a pro.