[versus rider]

Hi all, posted this in the wrong section somehow. So will keep this brief. Removed my horn O/B set up for an upcoming show and temporarily using some '80s wharfedale standmounts with a ss sony amp and it sounds very good in my small dedicated room built inside my barn. Drywall and acoustic insulation all round. I always said the raals would be part of any speaker I would build, so any recs for a 2/3 way with raals and scan speak mid woofers. Have this scanspeak itch to scratch.

[JohnR]

You say "build" so I assume you're looking for a kit. In that particular combination Rick Craig may be able to help.

http://www.selahaudio.com/id216.html

http://www.selahaudio.com/id237.html

[versus rider]

Thanks for the reply john, not a kit with drivers as I have raals already and 83db is not efficient enough, then I assume that is due to the passive crossover. I plan to run the deqx and bi or tri amp. I would be interested in people's thoughts on scanspeak drivers.

[JohnR]

Sorry, I misunderstood!

But... if you have the deqx why not be more ambitious?

....

 

[jonbee]

I would be interested in people's thoughts on scanspeak drivers.

I have a pair of custom Selah 2 ways w/ the RAAL 20 tweeter and the Scanspeak Revelator 5.5"midwoofer in a .5 cu ft. cabinet. Very good sound; one of my favorite standmounts ever. The Scanspeak has great tone and blends very well with the RAAL. The RAAL is a bit more transparent than the SS, but you have to be in full audiophile critical mode to pick it up. In normal listening, however, the music just flows very nicely indeed. They are sharply focused and tight but also very easy on the ears. I think the bigger Revelator may not blend as well; I've had the 7" mated to a Fountek and it didn't keep up as well.
The Illuminator might be a better match if you need a larger SS woofer. It has a bit sharper focus in the mids than the Revelator.
Rick Craig seems to like the Satori with the RAAL as well, for less $.

[versus rider]

Sorry, I misunderstood!

But... if you have the deqx why not be more ambitious?

....

 

no need for apologies john, by ambitious do you mean something like 15" open box bass with 200hz tractrix horns with compression drivers and raals. All valve tri amped. Or do you have something else for me to get stuck into.

[versus rider]

I have a pair of custom Selah 2 ways w/ the RAAL 20 tweeter and the Scanspeak Revelator 5.5"midwoofer in a .5 cu ft. cabinet. Very good sound; one of my favorite standmounts ever. The Scanspeak has great tone and blends very well with the RAAL. The RAAL is a bit more transparent than the SS, but you have to be in full audiophile critical mode to pick it up. In normal listening, however, the music just flows very nicely indeed. They are sharply focused and tight but also very easy on the ears. I think the bigger Revelator may not blend as well; I've had the 7" mated to a Fountek and it didn't keep up as well.
The Illuminator might be a better match if you need a larger SS woofer. It has a bit sharper focus in the mids than the Revelator.
Rick Craig seems to like the Satori with the RAAL as well, for less $.

hi thanks for sharing, do you know the crossover point, the raal 140-15D works very well at the Reccomended 1600hz crossover point.

[JohnR]

no need for apologies john, by ambitious do you mean something like 15" open box bass with 200hz tractrix horns with compression drivers and raals. All valve tri amped. Or do you have something else for me to get stuck into.

Well... since you asked about Scanspeak I was thinking something along the lines of Scanspeak mid and something 15" or 12" ish in a sealed box.  I guess I just thought the DEQX a bit wasted on a (small?) 2-way 

FWIW some mids being advertised right here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=123934

[studiotech]

hi thanks for sharing, do you know the crossover point, the raal 140-15D works very well at the Reccomended 1600hz crossover point.

I have to disagree here.  The 140-15 sounds strained to me run that low and the distortion sweeps back that up.  I prefer closer to 3KHz.  Just because you CAN run it that low and not kill it, does not mean that it is optimum to do so.

As far as recommendations for mids to pair with any Raal, I'd vote BG planars.  They have a similar "quick" signature to their sound that compliments the Raal perfectly.  Leading edges of transients sound like they match better than with any cone I've ever tried.

Greg

[versus rider]

Well that's interesting as recently myself and a friend set up my current system at his house for a shakedown with his linn akurate before a show. I have the raals running through the deqx with three available profiles, these are the crossover settings that can be changed on the fly. The raals cross over to an autotech 200hz tractrix horn with bms 4592 mid driver.  We had a choice of 1600hz raals recommended crossover, 1800hz and 2000hz, 1600 sounded best with 1800 running a close second. We planned to set up new profiles at the show with 1600, 1650 and 1700, sadly the  deqx failed at the show. However this aside I find raals recommended crossover  of 1600hz to be much prefered over higher than 2000hz. Each to their own I suppose

[studiotech]

To be precise, the crossover CAN be set as low as 1,600hz, but if you talk to Aleksander, he will tell you that slightly higher is optimal.

[Vapor Audio]

We've used the 140-15D at 1900hz with LR2 electrical network and no issues at all, stays well below 1% THD at 95db@1m.  I have no doubt you'll be able to make it work below 2khz with a DEQX. 

Choosing a midrange to mate with it is a tough choice.  IMO ScanSpeak doesn't make a driver that combines all the parameters needed to create that seamless match with the RAAL.  High motor force, low moving mass, high compliance suspension, and higher sensitivity ... those are the things I have found result in perceived speed and fast leading edges.  There are only two drivers I've found that give all that combined with very well behaved in and out of band behavior, low distortion (extremely low odd order and intermodulation distortion).  Those are the Skaaning dedicated midrange drivers and the Accuton C173-6-090.  The Skaanings can be made in either 15cm or 18cm version, details on an 18cm version can be read about here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ATS-4.htm

That's from somebody with no skin in the game, and who has tried everything. 

I think the Skaaning mids and Accuton are quite similar in many ways.  They have incredible micro and macro dynamics, and both take you far deeper into the recording than anything else we've used.  Where they differ is that the Accuton is more aggressive and engagine, the Skaaning is a bit more rounded and takes some of the edges off.  Both can be voiced to be as forward or laid back as you want, since they both give such a clean palette you can paint whatever color you want onto them. 

To carry the bottom end I'd suggest giving John at Acoustic Elegance a call, the Skaaning sandwich cones are also fantastic.  I personally prefer the Skaanings but they are pricey.

Since you have a DEQX, why not build the cabinet with a removable baffle for the midrange and try a few options to see what you prefer?  The Satori is another nice option, and is better suited for dedicated mid duty than any of the Scan options based on the criteria I said earlier.  And back to Scan, the Rev 15M/4531K would be my suggestion to try as a midrange.  Motor force is a bit low on it, but it does have a compliant suspension and low moving mass.