[Emil]

I think this odd decision to announce a upgrade is going backwards for Magnepan.

I think that this odd decision to keep this veil over whats in this upgrade is going to backfire on Magnepan and they may now be too embarrassed to actually reveal whats in it for fear of a chorus of "that's it? That's the big deal?" from their customers.

What may have turned out to be a bit of teasing fun may result with egg on their face.

[kevin360]

Dave, I think 'upgrade' is a perfectly applicable term. Of course, that's making an assumption since we are clueless what the 'upgrade' is. That, and that alone, is what's annoying about this whole thing. I'm pleased to read that I'm not alone is treating it with disinterest because of the secrecy. I think many, if not most, of us who frequent forums such as this are interested in the technical details. I don't and won't forfeit money for an unknown.

Berni, I think your comment is curious. Over the years, I've read posts clamoring for Magnepan to be more proactive about their products and now that Magnepan is giving the consumers what they said they wanted (How about a factory upgrade?), the forum chatter is railing against it. The problem, as I see it, hinges completely on the secrecy.

I think this thread (and all others on this topic) illustrates what is dangerous about keeping such secrets. Speculation about what the upgrade entails is running wild (yes, I'm guilty too). I wouldn't object to Magnepan's guarding the fine details if they are part of the 'black art' of the design, but to give absolutely no information whatsoever (beyond the cost) is simply unacceptable. Frankly, I'm insulted.

Emil, the veil of silence has already backfired - just look at this thread. The folks in White Bear Lake may have a bit of egg on their faces, but the more disconcerting (I hope) matter for them is the attitude the furtive nature of this upgrade is instilling in us. As an owner of 3.7s, I feel somewhat disrespected by the manufacturer. Such feelings are not generally associated with repeat business. I wouldn't be surprised if it drove more than one owner to become a former owner - the ultimate backfire.
 

[Waker]

 Ok, enough--I call for a black op in White Bear.  We form a tour group, people off the grid, go in deep cover, infiltrate sensitive areas, gather intel, text it out to be sure--some frozen gulags rumored to be up there.   

[SteveFord]

You'd be wasting your time, the location of the factory is a secret.
Their mailing address is actually an old biker bar which has since become a woman's clothing consignment shop.
I understand that they're actually located in an abandoned underground cold war era ICBM silo somewhere in Wyoming.

[k6davis]

As a long time Maggie fan, I've been following this thread with interest, mostly because I'm waiting for someone to have a link or some info about the upgrade. I have gone from SMGc to 1.6 to 1.7 and I'm looking to upgrade to the 3.7.. well now the 3.7i.

At first, I thought the reaction of you 3.7 owners was over the top, but when I put myself in your shoes, I'd be upset too.

I think Magnepan's biggest mistake is not that they haven't revealed what they've changed. I think it's reasonable for them to keep their trade secrets, secret. But I think that they should have arranged to launch the 3.7i properly. They should have arranged for at least two respected reviewers to compare the 3.7 to the 3.7i and subjectively describe how much and what kind of improvement there is. That's what I have been waiting for and I'm really surprised that there's been no evaluation of the speaker yet.

My local dealer has said that Magnepan has had a rush of orders for the new model, but he'll be getting a pair in the store soon. I'll head over there and take a listen. Hopefully, they will have the 3.7 on hand at the same time.

[kevin360]

I think it's reasonable for them to keep their trade secrets, secret.

I am in agreement with this. However, information could be forthcoming without giving away trade secrets, unless this upgrade is in the realm of the 'black art' of the design. Even if that were the case, simply stating that something in particular is being altered doesn't reveal how. At the very most, such a comment would only serve to illuminate the importance of that aspect of the design. I'm finding it impossible to support the complete lack of information. Most consumers like to have an idea what they are getting when they fork over their hard-earned cash. Somehow, 'it sounds better' doesn't cut it, even though 'so and so says it sounds better' is often the impetus for selecting one piece of gear over another.

[helpme]

Here's a thought.
Perhaps Magnepan doesn't want us sending them our 3.7s for upgrade?
Perhaps they needed the announcement of an upgrade to promote selling the new 3.7i?
Perhaps they are busy building new ones and didn't really want the hassle of time wasted, shipping issues, damage control, Etc. Etc.?
Perhaps this has worked quite well for them? Oh wait, perhaps I should remove the "perhaps" from this line.

[SteveFord]

They knew there would be a bit of an uproar from the 3.7 owners.
Free publicity prior to the magazine review, I suppose.

[Waker]

     
    "Their mailing address is actually an old biker bar, which has since become a woman's clothing consignment shop."

  I just couldn't shake it off, so I made a run up to White Bear Lake to do some nosing around on my own. Pulling up to
  the plant, I almost steered into a ditch.  It was all gone--disappeared--only a field of snow where it stood.  I stared in
  disbelief for what seemed like an eternity when movement off to the side brought me around--an old guy was walking
  along the snowbank across the road.  Stumbling out of my car, I asked, "What happened to the factory that was here?"
  Glancing around nervously, he kept walking, saying, "Better check in town."
  "What's that supposed to mean," I yelled, but he didn't look back.  Approaching the city limits, I thought, why the f***
  would he say something like that?  Turning on to Main Street, I didn't know what to expect, but what I saw surprised me
  even more than that empty field.  White Bear Lake was from a bygone era--it was an eerie setting, a place left behind.       
  There were a few throwback taverns, some strip joints, a ramshackle bait shop/gas station, a brick-front hotel called 'The Lakeside',  long since turned flophouse, a wood shanty drive-in, some storefronts crowded together between two stop lights.  Idling slowly along, I was appalled at how seedy it all was--this was no tourist town.  I pulled in at an angle in front of some old shops. Above a dusty window display, a sign read, 'Second Time Around'.  A faceless mannequin wore a blue dress--it was a used apparel shop, alright.  On a hunch, I walked up to the door--the sign said 'We Are Open'.  Once inside, I could see a counter in the back. I browsed my way through crowded racks, toward the rear slowly, until a young woman appeared from a back room.  She was gorgeous, a slim blond in tight jeans and a red blouse.  As I stared at her plunging neckline, she laughed. With a sly look, she smiled and said, "You look a bit lost--my name is Maggie--can I help you?"
Embarrassed and trying to gather myself, I stammered, "Yes, I think so--I'm not sure what I'm looking for, a dress perhaps--something for my wife, but I'm not sure what size she is--do you do modifications?"
Laughing again, she said, "Do you mean alterations? Yes--we can tailor a dress--can you describe her?" Stalling, I tried to think of something--then it hit me.  Taken aback, I said, "Excuse me, what did you say your name was?"  As she slowly smiled again, I heard racks of clothes rustling behind me. Before I could turn, I was down on the floor. In a daze, I could feel my hands being bound with what felt like bra straps. Panties--some kind of lingerie--was pulled down over my face.  Before I could yell, something was stuffed into my mouth to gag me. I felt myself being dragged across the floor--then everything went black.                             
 
I came around to the sound of several men talking in low voices.  I was able to push a wad of cloth out of my mouth that reeked of chloroform or whatever it was that put my lights out.  The acoustics told me I was now in a cavernous space--like a hanger or warehouse.  Careful not to move, I listened closely for anything being said.  So far, I had counted three voices.     
"Whaddaya mean he was on the plant road? What the hell happened to the barricades?"
  "I dunno, Wendy--like I said, the old man was out on his daily walk--you know how he misses the place--he did what he could--told this dope to come into town."
   "Ok, Stevey, we gotta come up with something--any ideas,  Marko?"
   "It's too early to let anything out about the move--we gotta put this guy on ice--any ID on him?"
Hearing that, I gasped for air--I was done for.
    "Hey shut up--he must be awake."
They all walked over to me lying there--I felt a hand on my head--the underwear came off, and I was looking up at three faces.  We were in a warehouse--I could see tall stacks of thin cartons in the dim light.
    The one I figured for Wendy said, "Who are ya, and why the snooping around?"
"Just call me Waker", I said.
    "Ha, that figures. I told you he was one of them", Marko said.
"Yeah, I'm from the Planar Circle--just came up looking for some answers on the 3.7 upgrade", I said.  "Have you been reading our thread?"  They all laughed uproariously at that. 
With a grim look, Stevey looked at me, "Look, Waker--you stuck your nose where it don't belong--now you're a problem."
Imagining my fate, I said, "If I'm going to end up in a dumpster, at least tell me--what happened to the factory?"
Looking from one to the other, Wendy nodded, turned to me, and said, "We pulled up stakes, kid--you weren't supposed to see that. The plant is in China now."
Stunned, I said, "Oh, come on--someone on the Circle would have known that."
Again they all laughed.  Marko chimed in, "That Planar site is a front, an industry plant--put there because it's good for business.  Hell, all the regulars on there are us and some guys from the plant.  We do it to keep the interest up."
I couldn't believe what I was hearing. "Well, what about Steve Ford, the guy who runs the thing? You can't tell me he's a fake."
"Oh, that stooge?", said Wendy, "We let him think he's running something.  He goes on about this and that, and we reply as if we're interested--it's all astroturfed to keep up the threads.  The rest on there are like you--customers to buy our products."
 I was reeling--spinning--trying to make some sense out of this madness.  "Ok, Ok", I said, "Then at least tell me this--what is the 3.7i upgrade? You owe us that much."
Now Marko said, "Listen, there is no upgrade.  The "i" stands for imported--you're all getting 3.7s made in China, now." 
I shot back, "Oh, BS--then why is everyone sending back their 3.7s? What's the point?"
Wendy sighed, looked around, then said, "It's like this---we take back all the early 7's, made in America, and ship 'em back the imports, made over there for half the cost.  No one can hear the difference. Then, we sell the units that were made here to rich Chinese for five times the cost--they love anything made here and won't touch one made over there--it's a status thing with them, and they know their knockoffs.  We're making a killing--see, I intend to retire rich."
Mad now, I yelled, "What are you going to do with me--let's get it over with.  By the way--when were you going to announce the move? It's bound to come out soon."
"Yeah", said Marko, "But not yet--look, I got a plan for you. We aren't into bad endings, so we're gonna give you a job--you'll have to relocate, though."
"Oh, what's that going to be? Working in your dress shop?", I moaned.
"Well, let's just say you're gonna be pretty good with chopsticks in a few months. Sorry, kid, but you're getting on a slow boat to China.  You'll be on the factory floor, walking around, smiling--keep up the good work, you know? They're gonna love you, and I won't have to keep going over there."
I was in a daze, couldn't get any words out, tried to get up and run--stood still--slow motion--struggled--yelling--I was swimming, thrashing, looked around--suddenly, I was on my couch, could hear sweet music--there, from my Maggies--it was all a dream. I sat up--remembered I had just been reading on Audio Circle, had then decided to order some 3.7i's--must have drifted off………..


           The above is purely a work of fiction and is in no way meant to disparage real persons or to represent actual events.  My thanks to Steve Ford and the fine folks in White Bear Lake, MN, who make the speakers we all love to listen to.
 
   




     
 

 



                                                                       
     
   
   

[SteveFord]

That was great!
You have now entered the Magnepan Zone...

[Tuck]

I don't know if this will make anyone feel any better or not.   I looked into ordering some last Saturday and was told that there is a price increase for the 3.7I       They now list for $5,995.00 which is essentially a $500.00 increase depending on finishes.   The store didn't have any to listen to and could not tell me how long for delivery.     They were supposed to check on that today and call me.   That has not happened.    I was ready to place my money down, but with surprise increase and stores lack of being able to tell me what I would be getting for that increase I have held off.    I admit the 3.7's are pretty darn sweet and it was a stretch for me to even consider those.

Oh well.

[rhoni]

Ok so the real reason for 3.7i designation is so magnepan can raise the price.  I wonder if the 20.7 is going up as well?

[berni]

I am just tempted to try the Speltz autoformer on my OTL Graaf gm200 to see if they bring any noticeble improvement.(less power needed-longer tube life, less distortion, better low end?...)
Maybe anbody knows more?

What if MAGNEPAN would inbuild a similar device into the 3.7 to raise the impendance?
Ok it is not in their manner, but?

[Tuck]

Ok so the real reason for 3.7i designation is so magnepan can raise the price.  I wonder if the 20.7 is going up as well?

I hate to be cynical, but that may very well be the case.   The speakers get the highest praises from many different sources and to be honest I think worth the praise.  However, before anyone actually starts to send their 3.7's in for the upgrade, you may want to hold back until the 3.7I's are out there and you can make a fair comparison.

[rollo]

They knew there would be a bit of an uproar from the 3.7 owners.
Free publicity prior to the magazine review, I suppose.

  Si Senor.


charles

[Emil]

Seems Magnepan has finally gotten on the bandwagon with other manufactures   putting out
Mark II or "i" versions every few years to  generate new business. Can you blame them? At least they do give the option to upgrade existing 3.7s.
The 3.6s went on for about 12 years before the into the 3.7s. No? That's unheard of.

[jk@home]

Yep, some manufacturers do this to get new mag reviews out there as often as possible. Paradigm is ( or at least used to be) guilty of this, V1s, V2s, V3s, etc.  Would kill the used/resale values, but why would they care about that.

[rhoni]

The lifespan of the 3.6R is 12 years.  I think there might have been one price increase along the way.  That is amazing that Magnepan can continue to be a viable company with the same product for this long.

Tech company will have something new every year and something radical every 4-5 years.

At some point, the 3.???? will have to have push pull driver or someway to decrease the mass of the diaphragm.
This means moving the 20.7 technology down to the 3 series.

Anyone wants to guess as to the TAM for magnepan 3.7 speakers ????
How many units can Magnepan sells over a 2, 5, 10 , 15 year period.

I have to admit that I'm a repeat buyer and I've been upgrading with each new generation.  Starting with Tympani 1D, to MG 1.6 and now at MG 3.7.

[Roger Gustavsson]

There have not been any dramatic changes in moving mass over the years, except for some bass drivers (copper to aliminium etc.). The push-pull Magneplanar drivers are far from being massless. Mylar is still 12 µm. It once was 6 µm for the Tympani IVa mids. Mylar, wiring and glue still makes them rather high mass. The masses of the various parts of the diaphragm and the tension steers the resonant behaviour of the speaker. Push-pull will lower distorsion at high SPL.
 
There seems to be a different thinking behind the 3.7 and 20.7. The 3-series is really a bit handicaped by having bass and mid sharing the same sheet of Mylar. In the 3.6 it is clear they handed over to the ribbon tweeter at a lower frequency to reduce the bluring effect of the mid. In the 20 and 20.1 they let the mid operate to higher frequencies and therefore the ribbon comes in at higher frequencies and blends better.

[Emil]

Is this still a mystery?