[Cheeseboy]

Has anyone tried the open baffle subs applied to reenforcing bass with the GR-Research Line Source LS6 or LS9?  Where would you crossover and why?  Is there a reason you went with the Open baffle as opposed to the Boxed application.  The new open baffle line source that Danny designed is entrigueing.  I can't see my self spending to replace the LS6 but could see some bass enhancement. 

I finnally have the room for the LS6 to breath in a new room.   I'm just dialing in the room now.  I have always wanted to add some deeper bass to my rig and now have the space to do so.  What would be the best way to proceed? 

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. 

[SoCalWJS]

 

[Cheeseboy]

Is that you there?  It's me here!

What do you think about this issue?  Boxed or Baffle less?  Where do you crossover?

[Cheeseboy]

In the application of line source with the open baffle at the RMAF the subs were set as 3 per channel.   If one were to mimic and set 3 per channel with the LS6 what be the crossover point? 

[SoCalWJS]

I can't give any definitive answers Steve - I'm still fiddling around almost constantly. There's waaaay too many available options. External crossover. Settings on the internal crossover of the LS6's. Settings on the Servo amps. 

I'm currently running the 50 Hz FMODS, so that would be my first recommendation. I chose it because my 2 options with the FMODS were 50 and 70 Hz, and I liked the sound a bit better (I guess that it reduces the range  where the two different speakers are reproducing the same frequencies by an approximate 20 Hz band and therefore sounds a bit cleaner)

Kind of difficult to compare to the OB LS X's at RMAF. Different speakers, different room, different number of OB Woofers, different electronics. I will say that it's very obvious which setup sounds better - MINE!!!!!   

No, just kidding. The RMAF system was soooooo much cleaner and deeper it's not even funny. That RMAF system was effortless in what was being reproduced. 

Having said that, there are some similarities and I am just getting more and more content with the sound that I have achieved. By and large, each change I have made in the settings are for the better, and I think that I am getting very close to the best I can get out of this setup. I CAN NOT get the same bass that Danny and Co were able to achieve with the 3 OB Woofs per side. It took me awhile to get, but I found the Kodo SACD with the big drum piece that they played there. By the time I get to the volume I like to get the visceral impact of that drum at my primary listening position (in an open room) that I want, I'm pushing my system too hard and things are breaking up.

Would I be able to get that effect with 3 per side rather than 2 in my room/setup?? 

[Cheeseboy]

So you are saying Open Baffle rather than boxed is better in your set up?   Are you running the set up on speaker level in or line in?

What amps were feeding the subs at RMAF?  Are they the same you are using?

[Hugh]

Just get the LS9 and be done with.

[Danny Richie]

What amps were feeding the subs at RMAF?  Are they the same you are using?

The amps used at the show were the A370PEQ's. SoCalWJS amps are the same.

If you want to add open baffle bass to your LS speakers then I'd start out with them handling a very low frequency range only.

Or since the LS's play so low to begin with then it might work out better to run subs in the rear corners of the room and run them out of phase with the front speakers. These can be sealed box servo subs. This will not only give you some added low extension, but it can also do away with some room loading. Sometimes that will clean up your bass response better than anything.

[SoCalWJS]

So you are saying Open Baffle rather than boxed is better in your set up?   Are you running the set up on speaker level in or line in?

What amps were feeding the subs at RMAF?  Are they the same you are using?

Based on what I have on hand and have been able to experiment with in my system.....


I prefer OB to Sealed/ported subs. Less room interaction results in clearer sound. Easiest thing to tell is clarity of vocals. "Mumbled" lines can be difficult sometimes. MUCH easier now.

I split the signal coming out of my pre. One output (RCA) to the A370PEQ's and the other to the FMODS at the input of the amps feeding the LS 6's.

I still don't have the depth that the Super V's have, but I like the highs on the Neo's better, and the overall Line Source sound better. Soundstage width and height are incredible, with a bottom end punch that can make me grin ear to ear. Listening to more and more music each day. Swapped out the powercords on the Oppo and ModWright for ones purchased from Pete. The "edginess" that has bothered me in the past is all but gone. The only thing that still drives me nuts is listening to anything where the Artist(s) chose to use distortion on their Guitars. Sounds so "distorted" that I think I've got a blown driver someplace. I put on a different piece of music and the issue disappears. 

[SoCalWJS]

Just get the LS9 and be done with.

This might do it as well. Only time I've heard the 9's was at the GTG at Sunil's. It was impressive, but I thought there were some room issues that prevented them from sounding their best on the bottom end.

I think OB works better in most (all?) rooms

[Cheeseboy]

I'm still working on the room and speaker positioning.  I just moved in.  John, you could help with that on the 23rd.    The room is really big.  I can tell already I need some diffusion in front of the TV when it is not being watched and behind the speakers.  This would really enhance the front to back.  The speakers are 5 ft away from the front wall.  I haven't noticed a booming bass problem but I think I need to work them backwards a little right now.  The bass picks up as I do that and there could be loading issues..  I think I'll post some pictures tonight.

I like the idea of the triple open baffle subs in the front of the room.   Until I achieve a loading issue i'm all in with that. 

I've spent alot of time in Sunils room.  It is set up mostly for HT.   In our hurry to change out the crossovers and other gear that day we should have moved the speakers closer together for stereo imaging.   I was back there a couple of weeks later and it made a huge difference.  The LS9's are much smoother and more effortless in the way they do bass.   The room is a little over dampened but most of us would kill for that sound.   We had the subs off.  With bass enhancement you can't beat his rig.   The LS9's are just more liquid.   Thanks Hugh.  I know where to shop for LS9's. 

I have two line outs on the Dodd Preamp.  Where do I insert the higfh pass filter for the subs?  Can I do it after the output?  or does it have to be done inside the pre? 

[HAL]

The high pass filter would go on the main speaker amp output of the Dodd preamp or directly into the amp for the main speakers.

[soundofrockets]

Steve, u r right.  My room is mostly for ht purpose.  But if u guys want to do stereo only check in, I am all game.  Let's place those babies a little closer.  I would like to upgrade the cross overs and some polyfil.  These 3 changes will make the greatest impact.  And then we can compare the sound stage, depth and over all ambience with the newer OB ls series.

[Cheeseboy]

But But Sunil, would you give up your subs?  I didn't think so.   PS open your email.

You are correct we need to do the crossover upgrades.  Have soldering gun, will travel.  I am totally diggin having a place where my system can stretch out and sing.   The room is big and I want to add subs.  I think open baffle is the way to go right now.   

The next question becomes why 3 per channel?  What kind of output would I be picking up going with 3 OB Subs in one frame per channel rather than 2 OB Subs per frame per channel.   More is better.  How much better?

[SoCalWJS]

But But Sunil, would you give up your subs?  I didn't think so.   PS open your email.

You are correct we need to do the crossover upgrades.  Have soldering gun, will travel.  I am totally diggin having a place where my system can stretch out and sing.   The room is big and I want to add subs.  I think open baffle is the way to go right now.   

The next question becomes why 3 per channel?  What kind of output would I be picking up going with 3 OB Subs in one frame per channel rather than 2 OB Subs per frame per channel.   More is better.  How much better?

Hey Danny!

Given any thought of marketing a kit version of the LSX Woofer Tower? 

[soundofrockets]

steve are u saying that subs are not needed with the 9s ?  and with OB you need 3 per side 

[Danny Richie]

Hey Danny!

Given any thought of marketing a kit version of the LSX Woofer Tower? 

Yeah, but just the cost of woofers, tweeters, crossover parts, servo woofers, and amps would come to just over 6 grand.

[bdp24]

But But Sunil, would you give up your subs?  I didn't think so.   PS open your email.

You are correct we need to do the crossover upgrades.  Have soldering gun, will travel.  I am totally diggin having a place where my system can stretch out and sing.   The room is big and I want to add subs.  I think open baffle is the way to go right now.   

The next question becomes why 3 per channel?  What kind of output would I be picking up going with 3 OB Subs in one frame per channel rather than 2 OB Subs per frame per channel.   More is better.  How much better?

In one reply to a question about the relative output of sealed vs. OB subs, Danny said the 2-woofer H-frame sub about equaled one sealed 12" GR sub in output. Because of the front-to-back cancellation inherent in OB subs, the sealed will naturally have more output at very low frequencies. Danny recommends a pair of H-Frame OB subs (either 2-woofer or 3, 3 giving just a little more output than 2---two or three dB) up front, with one or two sealed subs in the back of the room, wired in opposite phase to the fronts.

[SoCalWJS]

Yeah, but just the cost of woofers, tweeters, crossover parts, servo woofers, and amps would come to just over 6 grand.

 

I mean just the Woofer towers. I know that they are integral to the LSX concept, and you don't want to make a kit in direct competition to Mockingbird Audio.

I'm talking about 6 woofers, two amps, maybe precut wiring, a wiring diagram, No-rez, and the plans for the frames.

[TomS]

Just buy 6 drivers and 2 amps, nothing special required. This guy built a set and was very happy with them in a "W" alignment.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56491.0

It's also not a big deal to just add on 1 more to the "H" frame plan as long as it's solid.