Jriver / Dual PC Discussion

dminches · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 04:58 am »

Quote from: TJHUB on 7 Nov 2013, 01:07 am

As of today, I run single PC. I run an intel server motherboard with a XEON low TDP processor, 4GB of low latency RAM, and a Paul Pang v2 USB output card. For power, I currently run a wide input picoPSU with a FSP SMPS (19V, 6A), and a battery powering my OS SSD. For software, I run WS2012 R2, AudiophileOptimizer, and J.River 19. I can't decide whether or not JPLAY is an improvement to the sound or not with this setup, but on my CAPS v3 Lagoon running WS2012 and Phil's early optimizer, JPLAY was a must for me. I can't explain this.

Did you configure this on your own or is there an online guide/discussion that you followed?

ted_b · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 05:04 am »

It's what my next pc will be, as I stated in the other thread. Most of what Terry has built into that pc is based on AudioPhil's experimentation (creator of AudioOptimizer). However, Terry tweaked it a little cuz he wanted the FC8 case, etc.

firedog · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 08:19 am »

Is there a basic simple explanation somewhere of how to set up the two server configuration? I'm not quite getting it, and haven't found a basic setup explanation anywhere.

Thanks

TJHUB · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 12:30 pm »

Quote from: dminches on 7 Nov 2013, 04:58 am

Did you configure this on your own or is there an online guide/discussion that you followed?

There is no guide to what I've built. I'm a little bit of an early adopter on the hardware side, and as far as everything else goes, I put together what I know works. If I were to send you to the best place to read up on all of this, it would be the JPLAY forum. Just be warned there is a lot to sort through, and even more to filter through.

I'd be happy to share more detail, but I'm not running a dual PC setup, and likely never will. I'm doing my best to get the most bang for my buck. I'm not trying for ultimate nirvana as it's far too pricey.

TJHUB · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 12:31 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 7 Nov 2013, 05:04 am

It's what my next pc will be, as I stated in the other thread. Most of what Terry has built into that pc is based on AudioPhil's experimentation (creator of AudioOptimizer). However, Terry tweaked it a little cuz he wanted the FC8 case, etc.

Most of it is actually from Marcin. Phil is following his lead as well.

dminches · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 12:51 pm »

I did see that quiet-PC.com has a pretty nice guide for building a pc based on their FC8 case.

kenreau · « **Reply #26 on:** 8 Nov 2013, 12:15 am »

I've been reading along with a great deal of interest these past weeks on CA and JPlay, etc. and intend to do a CAPS Zuma style "Audio PC" build along with the Highend-AudioPC optimization stuff over the holidays. I've been in the macmini music server camp for 5 years or so and I think I am ready to try something new.

In this recent learning curve, I have yet to find discussions, or guidelines/recommendations covering the need and/or benefits of using the dual pc route. It appears most people using these dual pc set ups are just using there previous generation audio pc for their new control pc needs (ie like a carbon or lagoon)

My intent now is to just start with the "Audio PC" to get the hang of things and the JRMC interface. My questions around the "Control PC" are how significant does its performance really need to be? Could a preowned HP Pavilion or Dell 2 or 3 years old with an Intel I3, I5, or I7 processor be good enough? Does the Control PC need to be tricked out with anything special (linear ps? SSD?, etc). Given it runs the stripped down 2012 OS and minimal programs, I don't see the need for major horsepower, etc. I've got an old P4 based custom tower build I did ~8 years ago that still works, but it just collecting dust in the garage. It appears most people using these dual set ups are just using there previous generation audio pc for their control pc (ie like a carbon or lagoon).

If there is a link to an article covering these issues, please point me in that direction.

Thanks
Kenreau

*Scotty* · « **Reply #27 on:** 8 Nov 2013, 03:14 am »

Kenreau, assuming you still have your mac-mini and a PC computer, you might download JRiver MC19 and have a shoot out between the two setups. If they are not equivalent in sound quality and the Mac-mini sounds better this would tell what kind performance gap you have to bridge via the build quality of the PC. JRiver MC19 is also available for Mac computers.
Scotty

kenreau · « **Reply #28 on:** 8 Nov 2013, 03:43 pm »

Great idea, maybe I'll just give a trial version of JRiver a spin for starters. I am still using the Mac mini (2011). It's fairly optimized (mach2music mods, PureMusic, 8 GB ram, SSD, PI power cord) and does sound good. I'm afraid the old P4 tower may need more work than is worth the effort at this time. Without having the full blown 2012 Windows Server OS, Highend-AudioPC optimization, etc. I suspect things will not sound any better.

Thx
Ken

Quote from: *Scotty* on 8 Nov 2013, 03:14 am

Kenreau, assuming you still have your mac-mini and a PC computer, you might download JRiver MC19 and have a shoot out between the two setups. If they are not equivalent in sound quality and the Mac-mini sounds better this would tell what kind performance gap you have to bridge via the build quality of the PC. JRiver MC19 is also available for Mac computers.
Scotty

Sonny · « **Reply #29 on:** 8 Nov 2013, 06:00 pm »

thinking about getting this for my play back as well. wondering if I can install it on multiple computers that i will use?
Does anyone know?

ted_b · « **Reply #30 on:** 8 Nov 2013, 06:12 pm »

Quote from: Sonny on 8 Nov 2013, 06:00 pm

thinking about getting this for my play back as well. wondering if I can install it on multiple computers that i will use?
Does anyone know?

JRIver. Yes, on all you owned computers.

Sonny · « **Reply #31 on:** 8 Nov 2013, 06:17 pm »

Thanks Ted B!

shadowlight · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Nov 2013, 02:29 am »

Ted,

You are using JRiver on one system and JPlay on another for your dual pc setup? Can you use JRiver on both pc? If yes, any pointers/links on how to set it up?

ted_b · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Nov 2013, 02:35 am »

Quote from: shadowlight on 11 Nov 2013, 02:29 am

Ted,

You are using JRiver on one system and JPlay on another for your dual pc setup? Can you use JRiver on both pc? If yes, any pointers/links on how to set it up?

No, not exactly. JRIver is the client and runs on the controlpc. It talks to the Jplay ASIO driver (bitstreamiong set to "DSD"). Jplay then passes the music across the ethernet link to the audiopc where it hands off the music to the kernel streaming dac driver. So..you use JRiver for everything and in the back end Jplay is simply the engine. So...Jremote is used on the ipad for browsing, playing, etc. Jplay settings show the KS driver for the DAC (in my case Chord or now Meitner). A nice benefit is that when you change DACs the JRiver settings don't change. It's still the JPlay ASIO driver as far as JRiver is concerned. Then Jplay, on the audiopc, sees the new KS driver.

shadowlight · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Nov 2013, 02:40 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 11 Nov 2013, 02:35 am

No, not exactly. JRIver is the client and runs on the controlpc. It talks to the Jplay ASIO driver (bitstreamiong set to "DSD"). Jplay then passes the music across the ethernet link to the audiopc where it hands off the music to the kernel streaming dac driver. So..you use JRiver for everything and in the back end Jplay is simply the engine. So...Jremote is used on the ipad for browsing, playing, etc. Jplay settings show the KS driver for the DAC (in my case Chord or now Meitner). A nice benefit is that when you change DACs the JRiver settings don't change. It's still the JPlay ASIO driver as far as JRiver is concerned. Then Jplay, on the audiopc, sees the new KS driver.

Thanks. Will initially start out using the single pc.

kenreau · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 Nov 2013, 05:59 pm »

Hi Ted,

Primarily for cost reasons, I am intending to just start with an optimized single audiopc (Zuma or similar). I've read around the various CA, JR, JPlay forums and have yet to find a description of;

a) What specs make up a reasonable caliber control pc? (I get the impression most people are just using earlier generations of CAPS machines they had on hand) I'm trying to estimate what a minimal solid second control pc would cost me. Does it need dedicated linear ps's as well? Or, would a 2~4 year old retail build HP like pc tower with a decent Intel processor suffice?

b) Sonically, how much of an improvement does a dual pc set up make over just an optimized single audiopc / Zuma set up?

Thanks!
Kenreau

Quote from: ted_b on 11 Nov 2013, 02:35 am

No, not exactly. JRIver is the client and runs on the controlpc. It talks to the Jplay ASIO driver (bitstreamiong set to "DSD"). Jplay then passes the music across the ethernet link to the audiopc where it hands off the music to the kernel streaming dac driver.

firedog · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Nov 2013, 06:25 pm »

Isn't it possible to do this just with JRiver and the JRiver "media server" function on the 2 PC's - no JPlay in the equation? If so, I'd be happy if someone would send me an outline of what needs to be setup.

ted_b · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Nov 2013, 06:28 pm »

Kenreau,
Hi. You are going about it the right way. Start with a Zuma and make it a single pc with JRiver. Get used to the sound and then try Jplay; this will allow you to determine if it is a big enough leap in SQ. To answer your seodn question first, I never had the luxury of listening to a single Zuma-sized pc. I started with a Linux Alix, then Mac Mini (better, more heft) then Windows 8 and my CAPS V2+ (basically a CAPS Lagoon) and it was better in every regard. Then did Jplay and liked it enough to build a Zuma-like pc for the audiopc. That box has never had JRIver or any other player on it, so no idea how good it would be as a single pc. I expect it to be VERY good.

The controlpc vs audiopc spec thing is discussed quite a biot on the jplay forum. Start here:
http://jplay.eu/forum/computer-audio/for-ideal-double-pc-setup-what-would-you-put-in-the-a-ultimate-control-pc-b-the-ultimate-audio-pc/

Realize that a controlpc needs to have two ethernet connections, more RAM than an audiopc really needs, and ultimately a clean SSD powered by a separate 5V supply (a $43 Anker E4 wil do the trcik if you don't mind turning off when not in use, and recharging weekly or so). This clean SSD approach is a new requirement of mine since discovering it last week. What a great improvement over having the SSD powered by the dirty pico psu internally (regardless of external ps quality).

dminches · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Nov 2013, 07:02 pm »

FWIW, I am moving forward with what Ted described - a 1 box solution. Once I get this built and up and running I will decide if the 2 box solution is needed.

But, first, I need to build this thing. I should have all the parts by the weekend. Frankly, I think learning jriver may take more time than the build.

ted_b · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 Nov 2013, 07:09 pm »

David, a simple teamviewer session and I can have you educated on everything JRiver is less than 30 min (and that includes custom views, customizing Jremote, tagging, etc).