AR vs Micro Seiki

mca · « **on:** 14 Oct 2013, 03:42 pm »

I have been keeping my eye open for a nice older wood base turntable. Just this last week two turned up that I am interested in. I found a Micro Seiki DD-33 and an AR "the turntable". Both look to be in very good shape and are complete minus cartridge.

Can any turntable experts tell me if I should pick one over the other? I know one is direct drive and the other is belt drive, and that's about it

geowak · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Oct 2013, 04:16 pm »

I cannot offer an opinion between the MS and AR models, but I like the belt drive design over the DD. The older rim drive Garrard TT are nice too.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Oct 2013, 04:44 pm »

A dealer friend of mine recommended I stay away from the Micro Seiki DD-XX line in favor of the BL-XX line. There was no obvious agenda at the time; he wasn't trying to sell me any of his inventory as MS had long been out of business already. He had a BL-51 in his personal home system and sold lots of them back in the 80s so I knew he knew what he was talking about. I didn't completely follow his advice when years later I bought a Micro Seiki DDX-1000 for a good price. That was a real fun table that never gave me any issues and sounded quite good. Maybe my friend's beef was only with the wood body DDs from Micro?

mca · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Oct 2013, 12:27 am »

Anyone else have any experience with either of these? I want to make a choice before they disappear!

mav52 · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Oct 2013, 01:23 am »

I own a MS what arm is on the MS

a.wayne · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Oct 2013, 01:33 am »

The MS is a good table , mine had an issue staying locked due to servo drift, you would have to reset it 2-3 times a session when playing, the AR i have is an ES-1 , it is superior to the MS IMO, better isolation is the key. The MS had good drive when locked and yes wood base ...

mca · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Oct 2013, 01:44 pm »

I am not sure what arm is on it, here is a pic of the MS

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Oct 2013, 03:10 pm »

That arm is a Micro Seiki CF-1 or 2. I had one on my DDX-1000

BaMorin · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Oct 2013, 03:53 pm »

The AR in basic form is a decent enough table, however I would take a serious look at the arm. The original AR offering on that was a very base model Jelco type that had a headshell rare as hens teeth. Also due to age, the bearings in the arm may be suspect. The upside is it doesn't take much to change an arm out on one.

(note to forum: as noted in my avitar, I have a vested bias in my opinion)

neobop · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Oct 2013, 12:59 am »

Hi Marc, nice to hear from you again.

I was under the impression the DD-33 was servo controlled, w/o a quartz lock. If that is the case, speed drift can often be corrected by cleaning the adjustment pots. Like any older electronics sometimes cap and/or resistor replacement is required.

Seems that the MS has a better arm. If the speed is steady I'm guessing that you'll get better performance from the MS. To be honest, I don't know if AR would make a great platform for an upscale arm replacement. There might be a "decent" salvage type arm you could use that would be worthwhile. Either table would probably benefit greatly from a few pounds of plasticlay inside.
neo

hakka26 · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Oct 2013, 04:30 am »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 15 Oct 2013, 03:10 pm

That arm is a Micro Seiki CF-1 or 2. I had one on my DDX-1000

Could also be a 707 arm, have one on my DQ-3. There is a rare extra weight that threads into a hollow at the rear of the arm for medium compliance carts.

tonyptony · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Oct 2013, 01:31 pm »

One other thing about the AR is that it is a great platform for available upgrades which raise it to an even higher level. Over the years I've added just about everything possible to my ES-1. While it was (and is) a fine table stock, it is exceptionally good after upgrades. Not sure how mod-able the MS is.

And IMO the AR (at least the ES-1) can support a much better arm than the stock Jelco. I personally use a Linn Akito Mk.2 (rebuilt and rewired). I know of others using other higher end arms. As long as a high end arm does not weigh a ton and throw off the adjustment of the spring balance it should work nicely with an AR.

BaMorin · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Oct 2013, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 16 Oct 2013, 12:59 am

Hi Marc, nice to hear from you again.

I was under the impression the DD-33 was servo controlled, w/o a quartz lock. If that is the case, speed drift can often be corrected by cleaning the adjustment pots. Like any older electronics sometimes cap and/or resistor replacement is required.

Seems that the MS has a better arm. If the speed is steady I'm guessing that you'll get better performance from the MS. To be honest, I don't know if AR would make a great platform for an upscale arm replacement. There might be a "decent" salvage type arm you could use that would be worthwhile. Either table would probably benefit greatly from a few pounds of plasticlay inside.
neo

Hi Neo, good to see you as well. The AR armboard set up will allow arms up to about 245mm mounting distance. Tuning it to arms is with a simple spring replacement and mass loading. The plasticlay won't do anything for the AR since the plinth is pretty much a non factor. Nothing more than a way to hold the top plate/suspension, and looks.

Wayner · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Oct 2013, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: BaMorin on 16 Oct 2013, 04:24 pm

Hi Neo, good to see you as well. The AR armboard set up will allow arms up to about 245mm mounting distance. Tuning it to arms is with a simple spring replacement and mass loading. The plasticlay won't do anything for the AR since the plinth is pretty much a non factor. Nothing more than a way to hold the top plate/suspension, and looks.

That is not true. The motor is mounted to the steel plinth and it makes lots of noise and vibrations from the poles in it's synchronous design. I have lots of clay on the underside of mine and there is virtually no motor energy transfer (thru the belt) to the platter. This is a small, but important tweak that will make your table dead quiet.

Wayner

BaMorin · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Oct 2013, 02:01 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 16 Oct 2013, 09:12 pm

That is not true. The motor is mounted to the steel plinth and it makes lots of noise and vibrations from the poles in it's synchronous design. I have lots of clay on the underside of mine and there is virtually no motor energy transfer (thru the belt) to the platter. This is a small, but important tweak that will make your table dead quiet.

Wayner

Or as I do, and add a motor pod that sinks the motor energy. If goo stops the motor from vibrating, I suggest tightening the bolts.

Wayner · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Oct 2013, 11:58 am »

I don't think you can call some #4 screws, "bolts".

mca · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Oct 2013, 02:48 pm »

I ended up buying the MS as it was $200 cheaper than the AR. Now to find a cartridge...

mca · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Jul 2015, 06:36 pm »

The Ortofon 2m cartridge I have is not a good match for the phono stage in my Modwright LS100. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good MC cartridge in the $200-300 range?

thunderbrick · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Jul 2015, 06:48 pm »

Did you try switching tubes on the phono board? I switched a 12AX7 to a 12AU7 on the front socket and it matched much better with my Dynavector. There's a thread ion the Modwright circle that addresses that.

mca · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Jul 2015, 07:18 pm »

I switched tubes and adjusted the DIP switches, still too much gain :