Speaker placement

robcentola · « **on:** 24 Sep 2013, 11:56 pm »

OK, since I have weeks before my beautiful Song Towers arrive, I'm have to wonder about speaker placement. From the pics below (excuse my place being a total wreck. It's my day off and I'm being lazy and looking at "stereo porn"), do you think placing the ST's right at the end of the window.....almost in the corner? Is that too far apart? From corner to corner it's 14ft and goes all the way back to the kitchen that's about 25ft and I'm roughly 8ft from the seat. My girlfriend doesn't want to move the bookshelf on the left side and that's where I originally thought I'd place them with the couch on the opposite side. No luck. So, I was wondering if they are too far apart. If I wanted a perfect triangle from where I sit (8ft between. 8ft from the couch), I would have to place the speakers in front of the glass. Is that ok?

My little mountain house is going to be filled with music. I can't wait. My Amp/Pre are lonely.

Thanks in advance!

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 12:25 am »

Move that end table out and put the speaker up against the outer edge of the windows. Then place the left one past the window and out until you reach 8 feet or it becomes blocked by the bookshelf and then move it back. There is absolutely nothing wrong, in a living room situation, that says you cannot enjoy them as close together as 6 feet. Just use very little toe in - like 1 or 2 degrees.

You don't have an ideal listening room environment, so get the most you can out of them and don't sweat it. Only the most anal of us who have rooms that can be treated and massaged worry about maximizing the response, because we feel obligated to since we can!

So don't bury them so you don't cut off the sound and show them off a little as well. They will be great in this room but you might find that the blinds being let down will stop a little glare the glass could provide in the center.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 12:59 am »

To Big Red's post I would add to get those speakers off the wall 4' from the front of their faces or as near to that as possible and I recommend that you shoot for a 6' separation instead of 8. This is assuming that you will be seated in the center of your sofa. This would make sitting in that side chair more difficult so do what a lot of listeners do and put tape on the floor so you can move the speakers to the spot when listening and back when not. Plus, you could re-arrange the chair. Giving your speakers this kind of space will allow instruments to appear more naturally and allow more 3D spaciousness in your playback.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=1325

Austin08 · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 01:39 am »

I would say what BRM recommended is a good starting plan. Starting as that and keep moving your speakers in and out, back and forth a bit more to get the best "compromise set up" that you and your girfriend can live with.

Gzerro · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 04:25 pm »

Get some thick curtains for those windows behind and don't worry about the speakers being in front of the windows would be my suggestion. 14' is a bit too far apart. Let your girlfriend pick the curtains (and a matching set for the right side).

Then pull the speakers as far into the room as your girlfriend will allow (which probably won't be very far).

The nice thing about the SongTowers is that they are not all that picky about placement. They have great off-axis response. I am sure you will enjoy them no matter where they end up.

Good luck!

Tom

robcentola · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 10:34 pm »

Thanks for all the advice! I have a feeling she'll give me a little more room to play when she hears them.

audiogoober · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Sep 2013, 11:42 pm »

Quote from: Gzerro on 25 Sep 2013, 04:25 pm

Get some thick curtains for those windows behind and don't worry about the speakers being in front of the windows would be my suggestion.

+1

Carl V · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Sep 2013, 02:20 am »

Like many of us you need to live in the real world... Compromises!
I am going to suggest you try a different
set-up. Place them wide like you thought & have them Cross
in front of you or nearly so. And as far into the room as your GF
will allow. Or place markers on to the floor and using Herbies sliders
move them in & out based on your preference at the time. The window
Treatment idea is 'sound' yet it might be met with some resistance.

Enjoy our new speakers as best as you can.

jtwrace · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Sep 2013, 01:00 pm »

Just put it all in the room and turn it up to 11.

Saturn94 · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Sep 2013, 02:43 pm »

With my HT2-TLs I found I could place them quite far apart with sufficient toe in without losing a good center image. As a matter of fact, placing them farther apart than the distance to the prime LP produced a nice wide soundstage.

Experimentation is definately in order here.

robcentola · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Sep 2013, 11:25 am »

Quote from: jtwrace on 26 Sep 2013, 01:00 pm

Just put it all in the room and turn it up to 11.

Ha!

And Carl is correct. The curtains are a no-go. Even if it will sound better. I mentioned it and heard about what an awful idea it was and I'm lucky she's allowing me to put floorstanding speakers in there. "Allowing" me: hahaha..... I love her.

The tracker bar is still at the deposit stage, so I have time I guess.

mg8 · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Nov 2013, 08:13 pm »

After years of hit and miss success with various speaker/system setups, I bought the Get better Sound DVD and book. It is an interesting read/watch. It answers a lot of questions, helps with optimization and makes some relevant, "real world" solutions to common living room compromises. I have made more effort on room surfaces than in the past and, although no my most expensive or complex system, I am happier with performance than ever. The method doesn't emphasize acoustic panels or costly "fixes". I did buy some eco-acoustic materials but haven't installed them as I wanted a custom DIY project to minimize the "studioization" of my living room. I may punt on that idea. The nice thing about the ST's are their size and design. I have the Veracity ST (same size I think) and they are easy to "get right" in the room due to the size and the transmission-line design, which mates the bass response to the room more efficiently/effectively (IMO).

SCompRacer · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Nov 2013, 09:53 pm »

Congrats on your SongTowers!

I live with compromise as well. My system is in the living room and I have some treatments up. The wife selected the fabric color.

This is not my room but I was responsible for the owner treating it. His girlfriend didn't want the widows covered so they struck a bargain. He hangs treatment on brackets on either side of the windows while listening; takes them down when not listening.

You can read his long version here..

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?86154-Room-Treatment-Revelations

Kinger · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Nov 2013, 01:29 am »

That is an awesome looking space. Can only imagine how great it must sound.

SCompRacer · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Nov 2013, 01:34 am »

It is a nice space! The Revel F52's sound pretty good. Even better now with a Krell KSA-250 powering them. Should have kept that amp for my Salks...lol He is all by himself now so he brought all his vinyl down since this was taken.

robcentola · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Dec 2013, 03:32 pm »

Such a sweet room. I wish I had that space. Hell, the cheapo Klipch Pro Media 2.1 plugged into the TV sounds better than one would expect, so the Salks are going to kill it. Had to squeeze a Christmas tree in that little room. Kind of tight, but I'm thinking it will make a great diffuser

Still on "Sealer session 3". It's been there for a really long time; seems like two weeks? Maybe the tracker doesn't get updated. I wear the hell out of that thing!

Soon, Rob, soon.....

mick wolfe · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Dec 2013, 04:00 pm »

Quote from: Gzerro on 25 Sep 2013, 04:25 pm

Get some thick curtains for those windows behind and don't worry about the speakers being in front of the windows would be my suggestion. 14' is a bit too far apart. Let your girlfriend pick the curtains (and a matching set for the right side).

Then pull the speakers as far into the room as your girlfriend will allow (which probably won't be very far).

The nice thing about the SongTowers is that they are not all that picky about placement. They have great off-axis response. I am sure you will enjoy them no matter where they end up.

Good luck

Tom

I agree on curtains covering the windows behind the speakers. (no need to remove current window treatment) I've had good results with at least minimal damping behind speakers. Helps soundstage depth/ seperation. As Tom has noted, this is not a fussy speaker. I'm currently using a radical toe-in with my HT set-up for instance. Distance from the front wall to the back of speakers is roughly 2'. The main caveat with the ST's is not to be seated too close to the front baffle. They'll tend to call attention to themselves inside of 7' in distance. Some people may like this "monitor type" approach, but if you really want them to open up, I would suggest 8' or more from the front baffle. Let your ear and room decide the most pleasing separation between speakers. An added bonus to their "non-fussiness" is that they're an easy look and drive for an amp. I've used everything from a 22 SET to a 125/250 watt Classdaudio 254.....with a couple of P-P 40 and 60 watt tube amps in the mix as well. Good luck. The ST is a great all-arounder.

robcentola · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Dec 2013, 07:46 pm »

Thanks for the tips. I've been measuring around and it looks as if they will be about 14 inches from the back wall with about two feel from the right wall, and 3.5 from the left. I got shot down with the curtain suggestion, but I think I'm going to make something to hang on the windows for serious listening and when she's not around

. There's a tree there where the green chair is on the right, so it's going to be a tight squeeze and I'm going to have to toe-in a little to clear the tree (maybe, we'll see). I figure they will be about 9ft apart and 9ft to the listening position. I'll play around with it, obviously, but I think it's going to be pretty good. Not ideal, but still.........

robcentola · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Dec 2013, 08:51 pm »

Email from Jim! I sent a feeler out and got a wonderful reply!

"Rob –

Watch audio circle in the next day or so. You may see them. (A customer picked up a pair of SS8’s today and came with a camera. He purposely shot some pictures of your cabinets in order to provide you with an update.)

When we looked at the cabinets today, they look like they are ready for final topcoat. Of course, we will have to inspect them much more thoroughly before shooting any topcoat. But if they are ready, we should be able to finish them up next week.

- Jim"

Ok, who's the lucky new SS8 owner that might have a pic of my ST's?

........dancing in my office......

mick wolfe · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Dec 2013, 09:00 pm »

Yes, after revisiting your room pics, curtains don't really fit aesthetically......especially if just put solely on the front window arrangement. I'll buy into her beef. That said, sound absorbing panels at or near the corners of the front wall can be bought in various colors to match your décor. I've had good success with ATS Acoustics panels. Fairly inexpensive and attractive. Well, attractive for a panel that is. Come in various sizes, but the 2' x 2' thru 2' x 4'( 2" thickness) seem to be the most common and offer the most coverage per dollar. With this all said, I'd probably wait until you've spent some time with the ST's in your room before making any treatment decisions.