[Scott F.]

For $1000 more the PM2A should sound better.

Point well taken...but... if you want to take your OBs to the next level 

[MJK]

...until you hear a well implemented PM2A. Night and day difference...IMO of course

All the Lowther driver models sound a bit different, but I think night and day is a little over stated. There is more similar then different in the sound of these drivers. Comparing a Lowther driver to a Fostex is a bigger difference, I don't have any experience with the Tangband W8 drivers.

The DX3 is a nice compromise between the PM6A/DX2 small magnets and the PM2A/DX4 large magnets, it falls in a middle range of Qts and will work well in an enclosure or OB. The DX3 is kind of a unique driver without a sister unit in the A or C series.

For the strong magnet drivers like the PM2C, PM2A, and DX4 I prefer the DX4. The differences are subtle and all are easy to live with if they are in the right enclosure or OB set-up.

[Poultrygeist]

Hi Martin,

I took you advice and after a few hours of comparisons the active crossover is the better solution for these OB's. I'm now getting far better integration of bass and treble.

[MJK]

Glad it is working out. I think the crossover allows you to dial in the best perfomance. Compared to the exotic and difficult to design/build BLH enclosures, a Lowther in an OB with some bass support just seems too easy for it to sound that good.

[-Richard-]

Hi John ~

Thank you for the link to your beautifully written in-depth article on how you came to appreciate and design your Open Baffle speakers and some of the details surrounding your choices. I deeply appreciate it and highly recommend anyone who may be even mildly interested in the DIY Open Baffle paradigm to read John's wonderful journey and deeply felt insights. Your writing, John, is truly a pleasure to read.

It is wonderful that both you and MJK have made it clear that Lowther drivers are unfairly criticized for their 'shout' in the upper frequencies. And yet it is remarkable how many writers that work with audio have mentioned that frequency spike while reviewing or working with Lowther drivers, including Chopper, who claimed that although he loves Lowther's, he was not able to live with it and had to use a ribbon driver to cover the upper frequencies, and this after listening to his pair of Lowthers for a long time. Admittedly, the ancillary gear probably is an important part of the equation.

I spoke to Jon Ver Halen, of Lowther America, who made it clear that a long break-in period was essential in order for the paper cone (for example) to relax. I suppose anyone seriously interested (and I am one of those people) in using Lowther drivers when they are new has to factor-in this long period of breaking-in so that we do not get discouraged.

The incredibly inexpensive wide-range drivers I am now using, the Dayton Neo 8" wide-range drivers from Parts Express, sounds quite amazing. However, I cannot play them with CD's using my old cheapy Pioneer DVD player... way too bright on top. What is working for them now is the streaming music files from Pandora, that at the beginning of the month I paid $4 to check out. When the recordings are good, the sense of space, delicacy of nuanced tonal modulations, rich harmonic color and textures are startling. Especially for female voices of all genres. Small instrumental ensembles also have magic to them. Large scale music does not have the separation I would like and sound a little opaque.

I am certain that the Lowther's will bring out a sense of resolution, of space and texture, a sense of 'realism', that would constitute a leap from what I am hearing now.

In a very real sense, I think the Open Baffle paradigm is so effective, is so good at projecting a sense of 3-dimensional space and 'presence', that even drivers like the $200 a pair Dayton's can serve a music lovers need to get close to the 'source'. Then it is a question of degree.

I am interested in going as far as I can with the Open Baffle experiment... but my budget is highly limited so I want to make a decision that will really work for me.

I love your 'dedicated' listening room, John. Easily the most beautifully designed listening room I have ever seen in photographs. Your sense of taste, your understanding of working with visual rhythms and patterns that compliment each other suggests that you either have a background in design or that you are unusually sensitive to these important design considerations.

I can see why you feel that the Alnico version of the Lowther drivers are unique for Open Baffle use. Alnico has always been regarded by many people as possessing the smoothest over-all sound. I once read that it was because that the Alnico magnet allows for different tolerances in some of the critical driver parts.

Just for fun and for a fresh take on what it is I think I am looking for in my home audio musical life, I have decided to begin listening to what is 'out there' that is highly recommended by the audio press that is near the price of the Lowther drivers. I will be auditioning the newer Magnepan 1.7's, the KEF LS50 small monitors said to continue the original tradition of the BBC 'sound', and a new hybred electrostatic that is not designed as a dipole, the Janszen zA2.1 (this is an expensive pair of speakers, $7.5k). I am interested to hear what designers think will take us close to source that is not an Open Baffle paradigm. Deborah will be there with me for a second opinion. Deborah loves tubes and our Open Baffle speakers. As a rule, she hates boxed speakers and Solid State electronics.

After a fresh take on what is out there that is within the $2500 price point (a pair of A series Lowthers now) or that is innovative without costing as much as a down payment for a house, I feel confident I can make my decision to go ahead with the purchase of a pair of Lowther drivers.

Incidentally, what SET amplifiers have you used, or are you now using that you feel really work the magic for you with your Lowthers?

Certainly, the ability to use low-watt SET amplifiers with the high sensitivity of the Lowthers is an incredible option.

Thanks John, for your insights and for sharing your audio musical journey with us. Please stay in touch and post any further insights you have.

With Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[Scott F.]

Incidentally, what SET amplifiers have you used, or are you now using that you feel really work the magic for you with your Lowthers?

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the kind words.

I've settled on the Welborne 300B DRDs. Ron doesn't offer these anymore but you can find them occasionally offered used. Jack Ellano still offers to build them but he commands a healthy price fully assembled. The DRD is without a doubt the cleanest, most accurate SET I've heard and I've had quite a number pass in front of me over the years.

That said, I have several other SETs, 300Bs, 2A3s, 211s and they all drive the PM2As quite well. The 211s are a bit much on the ear but they do fine. If I didn't use the DRDs, I'd probably settle on my 2A3s. They really mate well to my OBs.

In regard to some of the other things you mentioned, give Jon VerHalen a buzz. Jon made by my place a couple of weeks ago. It's been a few years since he'd stopped by. Last time, I was still experimenting. This visit Jon heard the latest iteration of my OBs (what's shown in the pic I posted). Jon will give you a pretty impartial impression of how the system sounds. He'll probably say there is a bit of a bass bloom, which there is. It's not too bad by any stretch, it's just the cabinet ringing a bit. But I don't mind, I rather like it. It adds a bit more warmth which I (and most people) find inviting.

[BoJonJovi]

Poutrygeist, you have had your Lowthers for a while now. I was wondering; how do you like them compared to your Tangbands?

I have kinda been out of the loop for a while; life moves me and not always in the direction I would choose.

Anyway, I finally built my open baffles with your recommendations of using Eminence Alphas and Betas and using the MJK and using the MJK's H-frame (kinda). I have been listening to them for a couple weeks. I have the Alpha's and Betas wired parallel and driven with my Classdaudio amp. The tweeters I am driving with a small 30 w Topping tripath.

The kinda part is I used round 18 inch concrete forms rather than building the H-frames. I made the length the same so the volume should be pretty close.

I have to say, I love them. They are simply amazing. The only downside I have with them is I find them fatiguing after extended listening. I am wondering it the Tangbands might be less fatiguing. I am not sure I can afford the Lowthers. I might end up going with smaller OB drivers in the 5-6" range.

Poultygeist, you might want to google Tone Tubby's. For some reason Tone Tubby's have always intrigued me. I think it is a Carlos Santana thing.  There are a couple people that are very impressed with matching Tony Tubbys 12" hemp with the Lowthers.

MJK I will be forever in your debt. I think on the next set I may go with the 18" plan. It may take me months to decide.

Back down the rabbit hole.

Hopefully it wont take me all winter to research/decide, order the drivers, then wait until the following winter or two to build them out.

I should have built these months ago.

[Poultrygeist]

BJJ,

I still love the Beta/ H-frame Alphas and use them in another system. I cut out the dust caps and did the phase plug mod which smoothed out their HF harshness. If you haven't done this mod you should before giving up on them as the results were nothing short of amazing.

For the most part I didn't use the Beta/Alpha without an active and bi-amped so I'm not sure how yours might sound.

In that second system I drive the Betas with a Miniwatt SET amp of 2.5 watts but that's plenty of power for them and their Realistic/Fostex super tweeters. I use two Dayton APA150 amps on the Alphas and a cheap Behringer active crossover. I can listen to this combination for hours on end which gives a far different presentation than I got from the TB's.

I sold the Tang Bands to a friend as I couldn't justify having such fine drivers and not using them. They were very smooth and laid back compared to the more energetic lit up sound of the DX3. I thought the TB's to have great detail but the DX3 ups the ante and is a better match for my 2a3 Bottleheads.

My friend now has the TB's with Alphas on a flat baffle and is crazy about them. He drives them with a Ming Da 12 watt tube amp and a plate amp for the Alphas.

The Tone Tubby's are interesting but right now with the double Alphas per side wired in parallel I'm very happy with the bass I'm getting.

[BoJonJovi]

Poultrygeist this is a poultryheist of good ideas.
First off, thanks for all you have done for me regarding this build
 
It sounds like I need to do a little more tweaking such as adding an active crossover, remove dust caps and add phase plugs.
I read your post and a couple other post on phase plugs. This seems like a quick and easy mod and I suspect will remedy some of the fatigue I am experiencing.
I am open to suggestions on inexpensive active crossovers. I am leaning toward the Nady CX-23SW on Amazon. I would like to keep it under a couple hundred.

I have been right on the edge of pulling the trigger on some Tangband but then when I think about the cost my sphincter tightens. On the other hand I read a review on the TB and a guy said they seem expensive but when you add up the cost of several speakers and crossovers to do the same job they are not so bad. Also, I need to think in terms of cost per year. Music is something I do everyday so ten bucks a month over a couple years is really pretty cheap entertainment.
Having said all that I probably need to do the tweaks on my betas and get a crossover then decide.

I guess the good and bad thing about this speaker build is the sound is so darn good and so darn clear it has made me more critical. My magnepans are stashed away and will probably be on craigslist with some HK amps in short order to be replaced by more open baffle builds. I can honestly say the build far exceeded my expectations as well as the magnepans.

[BoJonJovi]

[Poultrygeist]

BJJ,

Wow, how clever. Love their artistic look and the drivers are like musical notes.

I'm enjoying my Ashley XR-1001 crossover with the Lowthers/Alphas which is around $250 from P.E.

The Behringers don't have the best of reputations but my $89 2 way works fine with the Betas/Alphas.

Used actives can be inexpensive and a good buy if you can determine they weren't abused by a stoned sound guy.

Folks love the digitals with all their bells and whistles but I kinda like the simplicity of an analog unit with knobs that I can tweak on the fly. 

I know people who read these posts and have never heard good OB's must think we're all a little crazy. I thought the same thing before building a pair. Now I can't look at any other type speaker in the same way.

As Linkwitz once said, "it's hard to screw up an open baffle speaker to where it sounds worse than a box speaker".   

[danvprod]

I love reading your impressions of your new OB project. Looks like you have a winner on your hands.

[Poultrygeist]

Thanks danvprod,

Here's another picture.

[Poultrygeist]

[Guy 13]

Hi Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
Did I see correctly?
On your audio rack (In the background) you have several Bottlehead products.
Paramour 2A3 and others...
May I know what Bottlehead units you have
and a brief impression of the sound with your OB.
If this is not too much too ask, of course?
I bought the Bottlehead Crack headphone amplifier
and I might be interested in the Paramour 2A3,
if I sell some stuff.
Another Audio Circle members as bought a Paramour
and did share with me his opinion,
but I would like a second opinion,
since each person as a different hearing.

Guy 13
If you prefer, you can write me at: guyleduc@hcm.vnn.vn
By the way, nice little (Porcelain) dog you have.
I thought of killing my wife real dog and stuff it,
to put it in front of my speakers as a prop,
but my wife told me that if I kill her dog, she won't kill me,
because she needs me for her business,
but she will sleep in a different bed, which means....
Well you know. Don't have to explain.



 

[Poultrygeist]

Hi Guy,

I'm driving the Lowthers with the 2a3 Paramours/Foreplay III preamp and the Alphas with a single class D Yung SD300 plate amp. The second Yung drives an 8 inch subwoofer not shown. I added the Bottlehead logo to the plate amp cases.

The Bottleheads may look rustic but they sound wonderful to me. The only SET amps I can compare them too are the Dared 2a3 and Miniwatt S1. The Bottleheads are better but I still wouldn't part with either of the other two. My bone stock Paramours were discontinued a few years ago and I'd bet the newer 2a3 Bottleheads which benefit from all those on-going tweaks sound even better.

 

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,

I'm driving the Lowthers with the 2a3 Paramours/Foreplay III preamp and the Alphas with a single class D Yung SD300 plate amp. The second Yung drives an 8 inch subwoofer not shown. I added the Bottlehead logo to the plate amp cases.

The Bottleheads may look rustic but they sound wonderful to me. The only SET amps I can compare them too are the Dared 2a3 and Miniwatt S1. The Bottleheads are better but I still wouldn't part with either of the other two. My bone stock Paramours were discontinued a few years ago and I'd bet the newer 2a3 Bottleheads which benefit from all those on-going tweaks sound even better.

Hi Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
Thanks for sharing information and impressions on your Bottlehead units.
Lots of Audio Circle members talk about the Yung plate amplifiers,
I might buy one or two Yung SD300 when I run out of spares
with my GR Research SA-1 plate amplifiers.
I have a set up a little similar to yours,
but no Lowther drivers, I am a poor man,
now I have entry level Audio Nirvana 8" extended range drivers,
however, I just bought from Louis at Omega a pair of 7F drivers,
hopefully they will sound better than my Audio Nirvana.
The AN was a test to OB extended range and at less than 100 USD/pair
that told me that I should go in that direction, single driver direction,
that is.
As for the sub, Danny sold me eight (08) Eminence Acoustinator 12" drivers,
they were re-branded by someone else,
I only paid some of them 25 USD/each and the others 75 USD/each,
because they had some small scratches.
I really like those 12" sub,
I have them in U and H configuration
and can't really tell the difference between the two.
Therefore, like my avatar says:
Audio should be simple.

Guy 13

[Poultrygeist]

Guy,

Let us know how the 7F's perform in OB. They look very interesting.

[Guy 13]

Guy,

Let us know how the 7F's perform in OB. They look very interesting.

`

Hi Poutrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
I will let you know how the Omega 7F preform in my Open Baffle,
however, it might take a month or two, because they will transit
via relatives coming to Vietnam around the Vietnamese Lunar New Year
which is on January the 30th 2014
Patience is a vertue.

Guy 13

[danvprod]

Are you still using your little 8" subwoofer to add a bit of kick to the low end? So your signal flow is the Source -> Pre -> Ashly X-Over < 100 Hz -> 2 x Yung SD-300: 1 driving the subwoofer and one driving 4 x Alpha 15a OBs. > 100 Hz -> Bottlehead 2A3 -> Lowthers?

Are you using the LP filters on the Yung plate amps to do any additional filtering?

Thanks for the answers.