[guf]

Definitely a first world problem. My main system consists of SS8's, w4s dac2(also as a pre) and sx1000 amps,  off ramp 5, mac mini and room treatments. Better than i could ever hope for. My second system at my desk is mac with ODAC, bottlehead SEX(2 watt tube amp), blumenstein orcas (full range high efficiency speakers, and a sub. My second system is amazing and really fun to listen to and I spend more time that than with my main system. Of course my Salks and that set up are way "better". It moves air and i feel it physically.... its amazing! But the 2 watt tube system is more engaging emotionally and again it really fun. Sure i'm using subjective terms but maybe someone understands what i'm trying to say.  My one thought is to add a tube pre to color the sound a bit. I know, goes against what most of us want. I want neutral too and i don't believe adding another component will make anything clearer or technically better. I believe adding something else will color the sound. is that what i'm looking to do?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Big Red Machine]

I believe you have reached a state of maturity in your listening that now reveals to you the desire for more body and soul that tubes can give you.  Your double whammy is that pre and dac are "both" solid state.  Simply adding a tubed pre would be an improvement.  I have, and many others have as well, fell in the love with the tubed pre and solid state amp combo.  Tubed dacs are another path.

Right now I have tubed pre and tubed dac into SS amps and it has plenty of detail and lots of punch into SS8's.  You'll always have imaging and soundstage with the 8's so no matter the combo it will only improve but never disappear.  I'll bet you'll "see" deeper into the music with a tubed component in your chain.

[Nuance]

^ I completely agree with that guy. Seriously.  I think a tube preamp (and maybe a DAC as well) would suit your needs perfectly.  Who cares if tubes aren't "accurate" or whatever.  If it sounds good it sounds good. 

[Austin08]

Yes, tube equipments got their own magic that make them very unique. I am using tube preamp and SS amp in my system and very happy with the outcome. I always am looking forward to listen to my system whenever I have a chance (something I have never done before I got my Salk). Now, I am going to put tube amp into my system this week. Hope will bring my system to a next level otherwise I am perfectly happy with what I got now.

[Austin08]

^ I completely agree with that guy. Seriously.  I think a tube preamp (and maybe a DAC as well) would suit your needs perfectly.  Who cares if tubes aren't "accurate" or whatever.  If it sounds good it sounds good. 

+1.

[Quiet Earth]

the 2 watt tube system is more engaging emotionally and again it really fun. Sure i'm using subjective terms but maybe someone understands what i'm trying to say.

I understand this feeling very well. I went through this same thing about ten years ago with my home system and I just went through it again with some musical instrument gear. It's all about identifying your taste and personal preference, and then sorting out what type of system, and which type of components work best for you.

I don't think I would pursue the tube preamp idea. It would ony be a temporary diversion IMO.

What you have in system1 and system2 are two completely different characters. Two different personalities. The components in system1 are all based on sophisticated and elaborate engineering. They are very complicated and busy compared to the components in system2. And to make matters even more complicated (busy?), you have a reclocker in front of a DAC that reclocks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a claim that anything in system1 is inherently bad. Not at all. It's just that each component in that system is very complicated from the viewpoint of system2, which is quite barebones and minimal by comparison.

This difference in approach is what you need to focus on. It is where your personal preference lies.

In system 2 you have a relatively simple DAC, a basic single ended triode amp, and a uncomplicated speaker. Whatever it is about this primitive approach - what it does and what it does not do - is probably where the fun factor is for you. Again, this isn't about right or wrong, it's about choosing what works best for you.

The best thing to do is to sell all the stuff that doesn't engage you anymore and focus on the kind of stuff that does. You can take the simple DAC, SET, simple speaker idea as far as the sophisticated gear approach. Don't stop having fun though. Keep your expectations real.

IMHO, IME, YMMV and easier said than done.

[rick_reynolds40]

I'd keep the Wyred DAC 2 but just use it as a DAC...get a Tube Pre as suggested.  I think you are going to need a really good one to be happy.  I've heard some Conrad-Johnson stuff that has blown my mind.  The ET-3SE in particular.  My buddy is using a MAC C2300 Tube pre with his HT-2-TL's and it is nothing short of amazing.

I love 1st world problems. 

Good luck!

Rick

[JLM]

Good problem to have.  Every audiophile should have multiple systems.  Are you always in the mood for the same musical genre, food, sport, movie, ride, etc.? 

I prefer super simple systems too.  One tubed component per system is enough IMO (you can easily overdo a good thing or make a real mess unless you're really good at mixing spices).  Why use two tubes if one can do (two will never be/stay perfectly matched)? 

[OgOgilby]

I had the same "problem" with my all solid state system - music was very detailed, had a huge soundstage and plenty of impact, but it wasn't as emotionally involving as it could be. I recently switched to a tube preamp and I am much happier with my system now. For whatever reason adding a single tube component makes the music sound more musical to me.

[G Georgopoulos]

For whatever reason adding a single tube component makes the music sound more musical to me.

[G Georgopoulos]

I got it,second order DISTORTION...

[ratso]

you're sitting 6 inches from your desk system.

[WGH]

I want neutral too and i don't believe adding another component will make anything clearer or technically better. I believe adding something else will color the sound. is that what i'm looking to do?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Audio reviewers want neutral, music lovers want a musical system. This summer I killed the musicality of my Salk's by changing amps, luckily we were just playing around to see how other amps sounded, it was quite educational. Maybe there is someone in your area that has an amp they are willing to lug over to your house because they would love to hear the SS8's. Both my DAC and pre-amp have tubes and the amp is of the heavy, class AB solid state variety.

Wayne

[ricardojoa]

Maybe try to see what type of color sound you want in your system before going into a whaetver tube set up. There are many type of tybes that i dont even know, and i dont thing think they will color the sound the same way.
I am planning to add a tube preamp and i have been contacting with Albert from space technologies. This guy is as cool as Jim, definitely want to contact him to see what works for you.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

guf,
years ago I had a Classe Audio DR-10 amp and DR-4 preamp (all ss).  When I replaced the preamp with an AVA T-8 preamp (all tube) it made the biggest improvement in my system in years.  You had to hear it to believe it.  Everything sounded more "real".

[fsimms]

I upgraded from my HT1s to the SoundScapes so I could use a tube preamp.  I needed a full range speaker to avoid using electronic crossovers to my sub.  I am very glad I did.  Tubes added excitement and texture to my music.  The music seems more live sounding but technically it is probably not.  The chill factor greatly increased.  I am sure accuracy suffered slightly, but I will take a system that gives me chills any day over a system that sounds somewhat plain but also a bit more accurate.  For the first time I like digital almost as much as vinyl because of the tube preamp.

Bob

PS I also use a SS amp.

[Vulcan00]

A couple of years ago I was going through a similar experience with wanting more emotion in my system. With my all SS system I tried a Tube Buffer, which I placed between my pre amp and amp. This was a very nice piece of equipment which not only added tubes to my system but also add a "matching impedance control" between components. I am not going to menton the name because it was happly sent to me for try out and my feeling is it is a quality built piece which might work better in others systems. Although I feel the buffer did help some between the pre-and amp, it just did not preform as well as I was hoping. it seemed to sound like it was covering the music rather than sounding like it was a part of the original source signal ( if that makes any sense). Placing it between the source and the Pre amp did about the same thing.

I sent it back and finally end up with a tube pre amp which is where I am today. This is just my take on tube buffers, others may have had different results

[martyo]

it just did not preform as well as I was hoping. it seemed to sound like it was covering the music rather than sounding like it was a part of the original source signal ( if that makes any sense).

I think that is a good way to describe it based on my own experiences. It seems to work for some I guess and all buffers are not the same. There is more to it than just getting a tube in the signal path, implementation.
I have tubes in my amp, pre, and DAC, although the amp is a hybrid, I like tubes.

[mick wolfe]

Back in the late 80's I was generally becoming bored with the hobby.  I decided to give tubes a shot to see if it would rekindle my interest. Bought a used Audible Illusions 2B pre-amp and put it in front of my then Superphon power amp. Bingo....charged up my interest in audio again. Basically been all tube since the mid-90's. With your system, a tube pre-amp is the logical approach. Which one becomes the next challenge. The CJ pre-amps already mentioned look like a good place to start.

[pslate]

Is it worth throwing in a tube pre after a reciever pre-out?