[Samurai7595]

Since in North America a 15A circuit is wired by a 14AWG size cable (from breaker to outlet), what advantage is there to connecting an audio component (i.e. power amp or pre-amp or source component) to the 15A outlet using a bigger gauge powercord like a 10AWG powercord?

I asked an electrician friend of mine this question and he said that there would be absolutely no advantage at all.

[werd]

lol your electrical friend doesn't understand audio. Aside from the construction the 10 gauge lowers the impedance of the outlet. Your house-outlet-stereo are all in competition for power from the local transformer.
I am currently using 14 gauge pc. I use it for its construction but i also own 10 gauge pcs that brings its own benefit for current delivery.

[Samurai7595]

lol your electrical friend doesn't understand audio. Aside from the construction the 10 gauge lowers the impedance of the outlet. Your house-outlet-stereo are all in competition for power from the local transformer.
I am currently using 14 gauge pc. I use it for its construction but i also own 10 gauge pcs that brings its own benefit for current delivery.

It could be but the way he explained to me was, if I have a 1/2" pipe bringing water from my main water input all the way to my faucet, what benefits will using a 2' hose after the faucet?  Smaller than the original 1/2" will restrict water flow and the flow will have more pressure but bigger will not provide any benefits.

Same for mains.  If a 14AWG wire is bringing the current to all the way to my outlet, what benefits will be provided by using a thicker power cord (e.g. 10AWG) on audio gear.

I'm not arguing about quality of material/cable or craftsmanship (i.e. some power cords are built better than others), quality being equal or better, I'm questioning the whole cable thickness issue and wondering how much of it is marketing hype...
 

[werd]

Its amazing how many electricians do not understand how power is delivered to your home. Ok, Here in Saskatoon Sask energy guarantees 120 volts. I think its actually 110 but anyways at using 120v a basic electical power delivery equation proves it.

R =V/I

At the outlet 120v/3A =40ohms (14ga

now wirth a bigger gauage 30ohms((10ga) Using easy numbers to show. 120v/4A = 30 ohms.

See how the current went up. This is more accurately measured at the power supply of the amp than outlet.
 
     

[werd]

It could be but the way he explained to me was, if I have a 1/2" pipe bringing water from my main water input all the way to my faucet, what benefits will using a 2' hose after the faucet?  Smaller than the original 1/2" will restrict water flow and the flow will have more pressure but bigger will not provide any benefits.

Same for mains.  If a 14AWG wire is bringing the current to all the way to my outlet, what benefits will be provided by using a thicker power cord (e.g. 10AWG) on audio gear.

I'm not arguing about quality of material/cable or craftsmanship (i.e. some power cords are built better than others), quality being equal or better, I'm questioning the whole cable thickness issue and wondering how much of it is marketing hype...



 

His analogy is not correct. I have never like the water comparison. This is why.

Think of Volts as maximum hose water capacity. Sask Energy guarantees max 120v which is max water volume running down the hose. What hose would fill up the pale faster? Would it be the 14 smaller hose or the 10 bigger hose.

What he is saying is the volume of water doesn't change once it reaches the 10 gauge hose.Its like he is suggesting the 10 gauge hose is running not max capacity. That is not correct the 10 gauge will remain stiff because of the lower impedance. It automatically gets more water or current.

Electricity is weird.

[redbook]

  That water thing about more pressure is also a common misunderstanding. Pressure doesn't increase with smaller size pipes. The velocity increase gives an impression of greater force .( like placing your finger over an open hose).

[Speedskater]

..............................
R =V/I
At the outlet 120v/3A =40ohms (14ga)
now with a bigger gauge 30ohms((10ga) Using easy numbers to show. 120v/4A = 30 ohms.
See how the current went up. This is more accurately measured at the power supply of the amp than outlet.     

You have your formulas and conclusions all mixed up!

But anyway,  1000 feet of 14AWG has a resistance of only 2.5 Ohms and for 12AWG it's only 1.6 Ohms.

EDIT:

Let me add - 1000 feet of 10AWG has a resistance of 1.0 Ohms
                   1000 feet of 16AWG has a resistance of 4.0 Ohms

[Samurai7595]

Sorry but I still don't understand...

So I have a 50-foot run of 14 gauge in-wall cable from my breaker box to my power outlet.  What's a thicker (e.g. 10 gauge) 5-foot power cord going to accomplish between the power outlet and the audio component?
 

[Speedskater]

So in case #1:
50 ft of 14AWG plus 5 feet of 10AWG equals total.
0.125 + 0.005 = 0.130

Gota go, be back later.

[brucek]

Sorry but I still don't understand...

So I have a 50-foot run of 14 gauge in-wall cable from my breaker box to my power outlet.  What's a thicker (e.g. 10 gauge) 5-foot power cord going to accomplish between the power outlet and the audio component?

There's a certain aesthetic value to it.

brucek

[Chicago]

Here is a direct quote from the Bryston site regarding power cables.  I am no electrician or electrical engineer but they are.


A/C POWER CABLES:

When you plug your power cord into the wall outlet you are in 'SERIES' with all the wire on the other side of the wall all the way back to the power source. The small length of power cord from the wall to the amp is insignificant compared to the miles of wire it is connected to. As long as the power cord can deliver the current and voltage required to drive the amplifier to full power it is as good as it can get.

Good Listening,
Mike

[spinner]

  Yes that makes sense from a power point of view but  power cords do influence sound due to some noise cancellation .

[Samurai7595]

  Yes that makes sense from a power point of view but  power cords do influence sound due to some noise cancellation .

Unless they are equipped with some sort of "network" like the Transparent Audio, MIT or Kimber Kable Palladian power cords, how can a power cord cancel out noise?

[Elizabeth]

I love fantasy theory. It is like fantasy football only wierder 
Nevertheless I like my Pangea garden hose sized powercords. They do sound better. naturally is pure speculation as to why.. My theory invoves small Martians and Area 51..

[Triode Pete]

Unless they are equipped with some sort of "network" like the Transparent Audio, MIT or Kimber Kable Palladian power cords, how can a power cord cancel out noise?

Wire construction technique & use of quality materials that reject EMI/RFI anomalies...

Think of a very well designed power cord as a "filter" that does "no harm"... The best ones will provide a super quiet background, letting in nuances & subtlety in musical queues among other things.

A well designed power cord added to a system at times will not be a subtle improvement but more of a drastic improvement, like upgrading a component...

I find a lot of the naysayers have never tried a well designed power cord in their systems and rely on "common sense", wondering how a 5 or 6 ft. power cord could possibly make a difference... perhaps the "filter" analogy may make sense to some...

My $0.02 for the day...

Cheers,
Pete

[spinner]

 I imagine like a balanced cable does. Whatever, try it for yourself. There is a definite improvement in smoothness and overall detail.

[spinner]

Wire construction technique & use of quality materials that reject EMI/RFI anomalies...

Think of a very well designed power cord as a "filter" that does "no harm"... The best ones will provide a super quiet background, letting in nuances & subtlety in musical queues among other things.

A well designed power cord added to a system at times will not be a subtle improvement but more of a drastic improvement, like upgrading a component...

I find a lot of the naysayers have never tried a well designed power cord in their systems and rely on "common sense", wondering how a 5 or 6 ft. power cord could possibly make a difference... perhaps the "filter" analogy may make sense to some...

My $0.02 for the day...         

Cheers,
Pete

[thunderbrick]

.............is insignificant compared to the miles of wire it is connected to.

True.  But one man's "insignificant" is another's "the SKY is falling!!!""   

Which of those perspectives is related to an absence or oversupply of properly-prescribed pharmaceuticals is another question.   

[Speedskater]

................................... how can a power cord cancel out noise?

It depends on what meaning we attach to that phrase.

What a power cord might do:

A power cord can act as a interference antenna, both receiving and transmitting. By twisting the Hot & Neutral conductors,  the cord becomes a much poorer interference antenna.  This will be very situation specific. By changing any of the system components, any of the line cord lengths or placement (dress) any of the nearby appliances (including your neighbors)  or moving the system to a different residence or the time of day, might change the situation.

[rollo]

Unless they are equipped with some sort of "network" like the Transparent Audio, MIT or Kimber Gable Palladian power cords, how can a power cord cancel out noise?

  There are several ways to cancel out noise without networks. Properly executed winding is one way. Shielding another. Lets not forget the wire either.
    Debating the issue is just silly. Give one a try and decide for yourself. One of our club members owns a lovely pair of 28b mono blocks. We experimented with power cords for kicks as he does not believe they make a difference. To his surprise they did. We tried several brands from Belden to TWL. the amps are extremely revealing as are his speakers. He now is using upgraded power cords.
   The only thing this story tells us is that the owner preferred a different PC. Try one already and trust your judgement. No preconceptions give it a fair test.


charles