Went back to vintage, and enjoying music more as a result....

Freo-1 · « **on:** 20 Jul 2013, 05:40 pm »

Recently, decided to try to get off the constant audio upgrade train. I was changing equipment more, and enjoying music less as a result. This was not the reason I got into this hobby all these years ago.The change started when I stumbled on ATC SCM-19 speakers. Suddenly, my entire outlook on audio reproduction changed in one felled swoop. Combining the SCM-19's with the matching C1 subwoofer, I no longer felt an urge to upgrade speakers anymore. From there, made some additional discoveries/changes. The biggest change came when I swapped a amp I was not using for a restored Pioneer SX-1250. Suddenly, music has become fun again. I was SHOCKED at just how good this 70's vintage receiver sounds. This unit has undergone a complete restoration from stem to stern. The sonic results have left me floored. The SX-1250 just plays music effortlessly, with no hint of sonic glare or hardness normally associated with solid state in general, never mind a mass market receiver. Vocals take on a natural presence one only usually gets from the better tube playback systems. Brass and woodwinds sound like they should, which is a lot harder to achieve than one would think given the amount of coin the average audiophile spends on gear. Even the FM radio sounds great. I have not listened to FM in the house for over 20 years, as the later receivers just do not sound very good with FM. The performance from the SX-1250 makes one question just how far (or not) audio has progressed over the years. While individual components have improved (caps, resistors, etc.) I'm not so sure about advances in amp design. When one puts modern components in a vintage unit such as the SX-1250, the results are very enjoyable indeed.Thoughts?

SteveFord · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 06:10 pm »

Took you long enough!

Anyone want my We've been sold a bill of goods speech?
Buying a 20 year old Well Tempered turntable and then being given a 45 year old tube tuner really made me rethink the state of the art.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 06:20 pm »

Well, better late than never.

I would love to get my hands on a SX-1980, but that could be a bit much. Besides being a lot of coin, they are hard to work on, and hard to get parts. The beauty of the SX-1250 is its easier to work on, and parts are readily available. It sounds pretty darn good, too!

Donald · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 06:21 pm »

I can certainly relate. A while back, l also pulled my SX-1250 out of a closet and hooked up to one of my primary systems. The 1250 is much more detailed (without being bright) than the much newer and more powerful popular name brand amp I was currently using. I always knew the 1250 was special, just did not realize how good it really was until I drew a direct comparison in the same room and similar connections. I have not compared just the pre-amp or amp section of the 1250 to see which one or both is the major contributor. Just enjoying the unit as a whole. I believe the Pioneer Silver series of the 70's was a special breed. However, I could be a little prejudice since I worked hard in my college days to buy this one new back then.
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galyons · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 06:26 pm »

Quote from: Freo-1 on 20 Jul 2013, 05:40 pm

... While individual components have improved (caps, resistors, etc.) I'm not so sure about advances in amp design. When one puts modern components in a vintage unit....

IMO, there has been nothing but "Specification Wars" for the last 60 years. The spec's got "better 'n' better" and the music suffered. Speakers became more complicated and less efficient to match the cheap watts obtainable in the spec wars. Crossover's are more jammed with components than a computer motherboard. It seems the only "improvement" has been "detailed", thin, timbre-less and lifeless sound.

I, too, gave up after dumping lotsa' $$$$ in new high power tube amps. I am now back to simple monobocks using single 45/2A3 tubes from the '30's and horn speakers from the '60's. The music has never been better.

Cheers,
Geary

Freo-1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: galyons on 20 Jul 2013, 06:26 pm

IMO, there has been nothing but "Specification Wars" for the last 60 years. The spec's got "better 'n' better" and the music suffered. Speakers became more complicated and less efficient to match the cheap watts obtainable in the spec wars. Crossover's are more jammed with components than a computer motherboard. It seems the only "improvement" has been "detailed", thin, timbre-less and lifeless sound.

I, too, gave up after dumping lotsa' $$$$ in new high power tube amps. I am now back to simple monobocks using single 45/2A3 tubes from the '30's and horn speakers from the '60's. The music has never been better.

Cheers,
Geary

Well said. One of the nicest systems I've heard was a low wattge tube setup with modified K-Horns. Still, since my speakers are only 85 db/w, wattage is required to get them to sound their best. They are true studio monitors.

SteveFord · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 07:18 pm »

Have you tried the headphone section?

Chuckdog2005 · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 07:37 pm »

Great thread! The 1250 is from the time I first ventured into hi-fi.

I'm glad to read about one still bringing music to life. Congrats!

jarcher · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 08:10 pm »

Can totally understand. I've got a Pioneer SA 9800 of similar era, though I suspect that the SX 1250 may be better w/ it's torroidal transformer & greater power. Still - this is no slouchy dark vintage SS thing. I did find it sounded a bit better going direct into it's amp in sockets : bit cleaner & more transparent. Nice to have that option.

Also have a Sansui 2000A receiver, which is no where in the league of the Pioneer, but bought it for nostalgia reasons and for dirt cheap, so it's a "fun" piece.

Though it might be more for collecting & fun than sound, I think the rising prices of pieces such as these Pioneers also reflects the sound and build quality.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 08:36 pm »

Wrong topic except to say my system is mostly old but pleasing.

Pete Schumacher · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 08:44 pm »

I've got a Sansui G8000 receiver circa 1979. What a beast. And the delivery of music is stellar. I can't see ever getting rid of it.

I need to do a complete restore on it, but I truly enjoy using it as a power source.

You can keep the vintage speakers though. Good speakers from today are much better than even the best vintage stuff. But average speakers today are just that . . . average . . . and boring.

SteveFord · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 09:41 pm »

The trick is to mix and match, isn't it?

rbbert · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 09:41 pm »

I'm assuming you don't count speakers like the Infinity IRS Beta and later as "vintage"? Because those certainly sound pretty good next to today's $15k - $30k stuff (disclaimer, I don't own any of them).

Chuckdog2005 · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 11:36 pm »

My first receiver was an SX 650. 35 classic watts/channel driving JBL L40 speakers.

I upgraded to a SA 8800 TX 9800 combo a couple of years later. I still miss that tuner.

As for speakers, there were some decent models available in my part time job/high school price range at that time.

I remember one pair in particular, the Mission 717's that amazed my youthful ears.

The mid to late 70's mass production stuff was pretty fair, especially in my mind's ears.

pumpkinman · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 11:46 pm »

Pioneer Sa-7800

Pioneer CT-F850

Lafayette Criterion speakers Model ??

Hitachi turntable Model ??

Freo-1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 11:48 pm »

The 70's Pioneer receivers sound quite good once restored. A lot of my old Navy buddies had Sansui gear they bought at the exchanges, and I remember them sounding pretty good.

I may get another 1250 that is in good shape cosmetically and have my buddy restore it. One would be hard pressed to find equipment made today with this level of quality at any price, never mind anything reasonable.
I saw an article about 30 year old receivers sounding better than today's models. After hearing this unit restored, I can relate.

Brad · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 11:50 pm »

Great topic - I always end up listening a lot more when my Scott 222c is in the system.
(I think it held its own pretty well at LSAF this year too)
One would think that would lead me to change my habits

Freo-1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jul 2013, 12:00 am »

I had a Fisher KX-200 that was near perfect cosmetic condition. After I restored it, wound up selling it to a very good friend. He uses it every day. I sometimes miss it, but at least I know it is in a good home getting enjoyed.

I can't explain why, but I am truly enjoying using this more than the expensive separates I have or had owned.

Devil Doc · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jul 2013, 12:08 am »

I've got a Sansui integrated that I bought at the Navy exchange years ago that's sitting in storage. I may have to go dig it up and check it out.

Doc

Donald · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jul 2013, 12:10 am »

Pulled this out of the closet (Pioneer SA-6700) to make the little Pioneer 22's bookshelves sing.