Full Circle on the Planar Circle

SteveFord · « **on:** 7 Jun 2013, 01:41 am »

It's really funny how things work out.
I sold my 3.7s (which I really liked) and a beautiful 2002 Buell X1W White Lightning to partially pay for the 20.7s (which are tremendous speakers).
Today I heard from a fellow who has some 3.7s but he wanted some 20.7s.
So, he's getting my 20.7s, I'm getting his 3.7s and I'm buying another (you guessed it) 2002 Buell X1W White Lightning to replace the one that I sold.
That just about killed me to watch that bike get wheeled into a pick up truck.
I had to turn around as I couldn't bear to watch it leave; I know that it's only a motorcycle but to me it was part of the family.

Many months later I'm right back where I was - 3.7s and a Buell X1W!
I guess this means I have to change the output caps in the preamp again...

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 02:39 am »

So what you are saying is that the sonic upgrade between the 3.7 to 20.7 is not nearly as significant as the enjoyment one gets on a bike, correct. Well, that's easy to understand as riding a bike is hard to beat.

So can you share the details and amount of upgrade one gets going to the 20.7s again. I read it before but would be nice to see it again.

Thanks, and enjoy the bike.

Rocket_Ronny

SteveFord · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 03:21 am »

It's been a while since I've heard 3.7s but from what I recall you get a LOT more bass with the 20.7s and quite a bit more detail.
It's a different sound as the 20.7s sound "thicker" or more substantial or perhaps more presence is the word I'm fumbling for.
It's the same basic house sound but there's just a lot more of it.
They also play better at lower volumes and do a better job of filling the room with sound - the soundstage is quite a bit wider and taller.
Are they better speakers? Sure.
Can they be made to work in a normal sized room?
Yes but it will take a bit of effort to get things right where the 3.7s were pretty much plug and play.
I was prepared for the extra bass and knew how to attack that part but I wasn't expecting the height of the soundstage. You really have to be sitting up fairly high and have the speakers angled slightly downwards if you're in a smaller room.
One really nice thing is that when you get up to walk around the soundstage isn't below your ears, it's like being at a live event.
The 3.7s need to be raised up a bit which is where I think Sound Anchors really make sense.
Magnepan offers the oval bases as an option so I think that will be the route I go. That will raise the speakers up an extra inch or two and they're easy enough to prop up a few degrees to compensate for my uneven wood floor. This house is no spring chicken...
Will they loft the front end at 100 MPH when you crank the volume?
No, they will not.

I'm going to see what adding a DMW or two will do a little bit further down the road. I've been curious about that ever since I read the reports on one of the shows. I think that Wendell and company fooled around with things until they hit upon something quite noteworthy.

rw@cn · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 10:44 am »

And the story never ends... One year later and Steve will have 20.7s back in the house

SteveFord · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 11:36 am »

The thought has crossed my mind and it wouldn't surprise me all that much!
I have them going right now, boy those are tremendous speakers but the 3.7s aren't exactly slumming it, either.

Goosepond · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 03:51 pm »

It's OK Steve, as long as you realize you're

NUTZ!!!

It's also a little scary since you're the moderator of this crazy place.

Gene

SteveFord · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 05:52 pm »

That's what my wife said when the 20.7s showed up.

I'm down from 13 motorcycles to 3 so downsizing the speakers and filling up the garage is really the thing to do at the moment.

You guys probably don't know: my first marriage took place in a Moto Guzzi/Ducati dealership and the ceremony was interrupted by a guy who came in to buy a case of oil which I thought was pretty funny. The "altar" was a restored 1960s Moto Guzzi Falcone which was a nice touch if you like that kind of thing.
My wife wasn't too happy as two seconds after I said "I do" I disappeared into the back to finish working on the brakes so we could get going again.
The honeymoon was spent on a Guzzi LeMans (with hep new Frentubo steel braided brake lines, I might add) and with a hot wired ignition switch (hunka crap!).

I then ended up selling Italian motorcycle parts while working a full time job at AT&T, that turned into my owning a Moto Guzzi dealership for a number of years, I sold the inventory off and opened up a powder coating shop which repaid my efforts by packing my sinuses solid, I sold that off and then I ended up working for HarLee dealerships and getting really heavily into Buell motorcycles.
I expect to put on around 1,000,000 miles on motorcycles when all is said and done.
Stereo stuff is a lot of fun but bikes are another passion of mine as are the reptiles and Gibson guitars.
It's not all exploding tubes and giant speakers, you know. You've gotta have the cars trying to run you over and the snakes biting you and making Marshall amps feed back and knock the pictures off of the walls! Catching a monster fish every once in a while isn't bad, either.
I guess not everybody grows up

My first wife, Sharon, passed away and my first date with Lynda (my wife now) was an all night motorcycle ride on a Buell X1W.
I had to sell that bike to help finance the 20.7s and there were just so many memories tied up in that motorcycle so I couldn't watch it leave.
The 20.7s are going to a new owner who will appreciate them as much as I did, I'll go back to what I had (3.7s) and I've purchased another Buell X1W which I pick up in two weeks.
I will christen it by taking Lynda on an all night motorcycle ride just like we did many years ago.

klao · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 08:00 pm »

I'd say, you are such a romantic person, Steve.

SteveFord · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 08:38 pm »

I know and what do I hear day in and day out?
I'll kill ya...

thunderbrick · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 08:44 pm »

Quote from: SteveFord on 7 Jun 2013, 08:38 pm

I know and what do I hear day in and day out?
I'll kill ya...

I didn't know my wife had a twin sister!

Freo-1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 08:48 pm »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 7 Jun 2013, 08:44 pm

I didn't know my wife had a twin sister!

Wait a tic!

Does that mean you guys are related?

thunderbrick · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 08:51 pm »

Shhhhhh! It's a Naggie (oops!), I mean MAGGIE thing!

Freo-1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jun 2013, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 7 Jun 2013, 08:51 pm

Shhhhhh! It's a Naggie (oops!), I mean MAGGIE thing!

I get it.

kevin360 · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 01:05 pm »

Hey Steve,

I understand, and the 3.7s are plenty 'good enough'. It's funny though, my car revs higher than that bike – has a higher compression ratio too. On the other hand, my engine has to lug around a bit over six times the weight with only two and a half times the horse power and a whopping thirty percent more torque. I can wind mine out further, but with quite a bit less acceleration. My car's top comes off, but it's still a car – doesn't match the 'out-thereness' of being on a bike. Carving curvy roads is my car's forte, but it hardly compares to taking those same roads on a bike like that. If it were a choice between upgrading to 20.7s (along with the other requisite (and optional) changes) or keeping my CR, I know what I'd choose (and I guess I really have made that decision).

Ain't gonna happen! The audio stuff is necessary, but it isn't necessary for me to have the very best. We all have other passions – a balance must be struck.

3.7s are terrific speakers. I wonder how you'll feel about them now that you've been entertained by their big (twin magnet structure*) brothers. I'm really curious to read your reaction – keep us posted. It's too bad, though, that the speaker change didn't happen within a day.

*Will it be analogous to trading in one's 2JZ-GTE (twin turbo) powered Supra for the 2JZ-GE (naturally aspirated) model?

SteveFord · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 01:29 pm »

I'll post my impressions, for sure. I have a pretty good memory for things like that and I think it's going to be you have to crank the volume more, they sound better at the listening position but they don't have that floor to ceiling, wall to wall you are there soundstage and they sound "thinner" or less substantial.
If I end up being disappointed I'll add two DMWs.
I picked up a few tricks setting up the 20.7s so I've got a few ideas to try out...

At any rate, they get boxed up today, my "new" 3.7s show up shortly thereafter and in two weeks I hop on a bus and go pick up my "new" motorcycle.
I'm really excited about that part!
It just took a nudge to make me step back and reevaluate things.

kevin360 · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 01:52 pm »

I have a hard time imagining a more substantial presentation - no thinness here. These occupy the front corners of my room.

Not only do the subs ameliorate any impression of thinness, but steering the deep bass away from the 3.7s by use of a crossover should also decrease the IM distortion of the panels. It could always just be my imagination, but they sound cleaner to me.

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 02:02 pm »

Steve,
please post your impressions if you get a DWM (or two). I have been driving myself crazy wondering if I should get one. I have my 1.7s 3.5 feet from the front wall and about 11 ft apart center to center. I moved them out to 5 ft from the front wall (I have read that that is ideal) and they lost their magic. They became thin sounding. I also moved them further apart and they developed a hole. I ended up putting them back were they were and they sounded best there. Now I keep wondering if a DWM is the "next step". This hobby can drive you nuts. Part of me says "no you have spent ENOUGH money already" but a little voice in the back of my head wonders "what if ______?"

kevin360 · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 02:44 pm »

That little voice will drive one crazy, won't it?

We can't help but be inquisitive. In an imperfect world, there is no such thing as something which cannot be improved.

I think, when it comes to positioning, that the raw numbers mean less than proportions. It might be that a little further out would have the opposite impact – hard to guess. That's the frustrating nature of this hobby. It's almost as if one has to test 25,000 permutations in order to find the 'best' one. Even after such an arduous journey, one would still wonder, “What if...?”

SteveFord · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 04:28 pm »

Will do if I go the DMW route.
Kevin has the wall of bass, all right!
Nightfall, try this:
you've got them set up to where you like them and then do tweeters inside and angle them a few degrees at a time until you find the best midrange.
It doesn't take too much to get it just right, too much can be well, too much.
I always end up with one toed in a bit more than the other which shouldn't work but it does for me.

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jun 2013, 05:00 pm »

Steve,
I forgot to mention that I played around with toeing them in. I keep them strait. Any toe in at all and they smear the midrange and the bass gets boomy and muddy.