[JohnR]

Rather than dis/detract from the Picture of the Day thread, I decided to start another thread. There was some interest in this type of lens and I thought some background material might be of interest...

(This may take a few posts to get through... but please feel free to add anything)

Origins

The idea of "tilt-shift" is not new. With a view camera, the angle of the lens and the film are not fixed as they are with (most) small format cameras. Instead, the lens and film can be angled with respect to each other, and this is called "tilt" or "swing" (vertical or horizontal angle).

In addition, the alignment center of the lens and the film are not fixed and so the lens and film can be moved sideways or up and down relative to each other. This is called "rise" and "fall", or "shift" (moving up and down, or side to side respectively). Moving front and back adjusts focus, of course.

Examples of each from the wikipedia link:





These are all typically called "movements" and some view cameras have pretty much every possible movement, and some have a more limited set. Here is a picture of a modern Linhof Technikardan S, which does most anything:



(http://www.linhof.com/technikardan_e.html)

Here is  picture of an Ebony RSW45 which only has front rise/fall and tilt:



(http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ebony-rsw45-5x4-large-format-camera.html)

and an Ebony SV45U which has most of the possible movements:



(http://www.ebonycamera.com/cam/main.SV45U.html)

[JohnR]

Continuing....

Purpose of tilt and shift

You can google for lots of links on this, or better yet get a copy of The Camera by Ansel Adams. I'll try to make a quick summary here.

Tilt

When you tilt (or swing) the lens, the plane of focus changes from being parallel to the lens and film to being at an angle. This is called the Scheimpflug principle.



This can be used to increase the perceived depth of field. For example, in this Adams photo the plane of focus runs along the ground to keep the roots in focus:



(Adams tilted the film as well as the lens to accomplish this photo, because of the steep angle of the focus plane.)

Shift

Shift (or swing) is used to correct (or change) the perspective as seen on the film. (Or sensor, hah ha, forgot about that...) With a regular camera, when you change the angle of both lens and film/sensor, the perceived angle of parallel lines changes. For example, if you position your camera horizontally and view a building, the two sides of the building will be parallel. If you point the camera upwards to get more of the building in the frame, the two sides will converge at the top, like this:



(http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/297926-photographing-buidings.html#post2706136)

By repositioning the camera so that the film.sensor is vertical, and then by shifting the lens upwards, it becomes possible to get the building into the frame without the converging lines, like this:



It's by no means necessary to completely straighten the lines either. For example (no shift on left, some shift on right):



(http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/focusing-ts.shtml)

Buildings and architecture are the commonly-given examples for use of using shift for perspective correction, presumably because it's so obvious, but it's not limited to that by any means.

Note also there are limitations to what can be done in either case. The image circle of the lens will limit the amount of tilt and/or shift.

[JohnR]

Tilt-shift lenses for small format cameras

Since small format cameras (35mm and smaller I guess that means) don't support movements, it can be done in the lens. I'll talk about the Nikon lenses as that's all I know about, someone else may care to summarize Canon and/or others?

Currently there are three T/S lenses:

24mm PC-E
45mm PC-E
85mm PC-E



"PC" stands for "perspective correction." These are expensive lenses - around $2k each. There is also a predecessor to the current 85mm called the 85mm PC, which is the one I have. The difference is that with the older lens you need to open the aperture manually for focussing and close it again for shooting. There's a little push-button on the side for this. With the newer lenses, the camera will automatically stop the aperture down for shooting (I think that's what they do anyway, never used one of the newer ones).

While expensive, the optics are very good, and one use of one and you will get that "oo now this is engineering quality" feeling. You know what I mean? A few cameras have/had it, not very many.

The 45 and 85mm lenses are billed as "Micro-Nikkor" lenses, with a maximum magnification ratio of 1:2.

These lenses are more limited than a view camera. You can rotate the lens to get your tilt or shift in any direction, but you can't change the axes of tilt and shift independently. Furthermore, from the factory the tilt and shift directions are perpendicular. That is, if you tilt forward, you can only shift sideways. A popular modification is to modify the lens so that tilt and shift are in the same direction. This is the reason: if you tilt the lens, what you see in the viewfinder changes. So you would have to change the angle the camera is pointing to reframe the subject. Or, if the lens has been modified as described, you can shift the lens to reframe the subject. Much quicker and easier, and you won't change the perspective either.

Nikon also made some older shift-only lenses in 28 mm and 35mm focal lengths.

In use, a tilt-shift lens is... shall I say, difficult. I am finding it so anyway. It's not like a macro lens, where suddenly you can take all kinds of photos that you just couldn't take before.

[JohnR]

Tilt-shift adapters for mirrorless cameras

In an SLR, there is a mirror between the lens and the camera to direct light into the viewfinder so you can see the image. When you shoot, the mirror flips up so the light can reach the sensor where the picture is taken.

In a mirrorless camera, light goes directly onto the sensor, and you view it on the LCD or in an electronic viewfinder (EVF). Since there's no need for a mirror, the distance from the lens to the sensor can be a fair bit smaller. Here's an illustration which I believe originated from Sumsung:



Because of this difference in distance, there's room to make an adapter from existing lens mounts to the mirrorless camera mount. e.g. for micro 4/3, NEX e-mount, Fuji X-mount.



If there is room for an adapter, why not a tilt-shift adapter? In other words, mount any (matching) lens on the adapter and fit it to your mirrorless camera, and hey presto! A tilt-shift lens. A company called Kipon has recently started making just such adapters:



(http://www.flickr.com/photos/tdp_photos/8580130246/)

As far as I can tell, they had previously made separate shift and tilt adapters, and recently came out with the combined adapter. They are not all that cheap, $360 on eBay for the Nikon-Fuji version. But intriguing, huh?

Incidentally Kipon also make tilt-shift adapters for medium format lenses to SLR mounts eg. this one.

[JohnR]

Summary

OK that's it from me for now Tilt-shift lenses are cool but they aren't that easy to use properly. I ranted about bad/mis use of them in the PotD thread already, I won't do it again here. Perhaps it's like, say, the music in a film... or sharpening, for that matter - done right, the image is enhanced; but if you notice it, something's wrong. That's my opinion anyway

 

[Guy 13]

Hi JohnR and all Audio Circle members.
I've been in the professional photographic business for the past 18 years here in Vietnam.
I am exclusive distributor for manufacturers such as Phase One, Cambo, Rodenstock, B+W and LEE filters.
Plus I have been active in the photography since the age of 16 and I have owned everything from Kodak 110 to Cambo 4X5".
I am not trying to impress anyone here, only share with you who I am and to say that JohnR as done a good job explaining the tilt lens principle.
Thanks JohnR.

Guy 13

[PeteG]

JohnR as done a good job explaining the tilt lens principle.
Thanks JohnR.

Guy 13

Yes, very good job explaining this unusual lens.

[Guy 13]

Yes, very good job explaining this unusual lens.

Hi PeteG and all Audio Circle members.
May I add the following:
That type of lens is not for every one and not for everything.
It's not a magical lens,
you must know or learn how to use it to get great pictures.
(Same thing for view cameras.)

Guy 13

[thunderbrick]

JohnR has absolutely nailed it!  A PC lens is essentially an old-fashioned view camera's movements grafted to your current toys, but makes the shooter work more slowly and carefully.  Not well suited for the auto-everything shooter.
It's not as versatile as a view camera by any means, and a view camera is an old-fashioned PITA/very enjoyable and therapeutic device all at the same time.
But it will do amazing things in the right hands.

[Goosepond]

Very nice explanation of a difficult subject. It's the kind of thing you get into when you really get into photography.

And I second JohnR's assessment that they are difficult to use. I'm on my 2nd one and I've yet to actually take a pic with one! 

And I have Canon gear and their assortment of TS lenses pretty much mirrors Nikon's. And they are expensive but I've got a fairly cheap Russian (?) TS lens that seems to be pretty well built.

Gene

[Steven Stone]

Tilt-shift lenses for anything other than a view camera were an idea that was better on paper than in reality.

I used to shoot buildings for Boston's BRA. I had to use 35mm due to the job's requirements. I had a tilt-shift for my Nikon. I never used it. I could accomplish the same effect by merely walking up a couple of flights of stairs in building nearby and shooting out the correct window.

In the studio 35mm and 2 1/4 tilt-shift lenses proved to be equally useless.

On a view camera I never needed a tilt-shift because my Sinar View camera was one big tllt-shift rig.

[thunderbrick]

Tilt-shift lenses for anything other than a view camera were an idea that was better on paper than in reality.

I used to shoot buildings for Boston's BRA. I had to use 35mm due to the job's requirements. I had a tilt-shift for my Nikon. I never used it. I could accomplish the same effect by merely walking up a couple of flights of stairs in building nearby and shooting out the correct window.

In the studio 35mm and 2 1/4 tilt-shift lenses proved to be equally useless.

On a view camera I never needed a tilt-shift because my Sinar View camera was one big tllt-shift rig.

+1!  I have a 28mm P.C. Nikkor lens that proves to be very helpful.  About every five years or so.   

[JohnR]

Thanks guys for the comments

I had to use 35mm due to the job's requirements. I had a tilt-shift for my Nikon.

Was it a tilt-shift or a shift/PC (only) lens? I think Nikon's first tilt-shift lens was the 85mm produced in about 1998.

On a view camera I never needed a tilt-shift because my Sinar View camera was one big tllt-shift rig.

Yes, see the first post of this thread

+1!  I have a 28mm P.C. Nikkor lens that proves to be very helpful.  About every five years or so.   

Hah How is it as a regular 28?

I forgot to mention another use of these lenses, which PeteG showed in the PotD thread. That is, for taking panorama shots. With the shift ability, the lens can be shifted left and right (or up and down), without moving the camera at all, to take 2 or three shots that can be stitched. I'm not sure how it compares to simply rotating the camera as I have not tried it, but I suspect that especially with a wide lens the resolution will be better and you won't lose vertical height because of the "undoing" of the wide angleness (so to speak...).

[charmerci]

I used to shoot buildings for Boston's BRA. I had to use 35mm due to the job's requirements. I had a tilt-shift for my Nikon. I never used it. I could accomplish the same effect by merely walking up a couple of flights of stairs in building nearby and shooting out the correct window.

 

[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.
It's too bad large format cameras with most large format lenses as been replace by DSLR and digital medium format camera.
The large format (Mainly 4X5") was a jack of all trade.
It could do almost everything that required some camera movements.
In addition, using large format camera require discipline
and with discipline you can compose more carefully.
Also with large format negative and transparencies, you can enlarge a lot.
Of course you can always use a large format camera from Linhof, Cambo, Sinar, etc...
and digital back from Mamiya, Phase One, Leaf...
and some of those can even go to 80mpix.
Unless you have to do architecture and/or landscape, you will rarely need a PC lens.
That's my opinion as a weekend semi-professional photographer and a medium and large format importer, distributor, retailer and salesman.

Guy 13

[JohnR]

Hi Guy 13 (others ), it will be a fine day when digital backs for view cameras are affordable for a hobbyist What is the typical cost these days?

In the meantime, it is actually possible to mount a DSLR on a 4x5 using an adapter like this. I wonder how well it works and what the limitations are.... I expect there are many. There is also the Horseman LD.

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy 13 (others ), it will be a fine day when digital backs for view cameras are affordable for a hobbyist What is the typical cost these days?

In the meantime, it is actually possible to mount a DSLR on a 4x5 using an adapter like this. I wonder how well it works and what the limitations are.... I expect there are many. There is also the Horseman LD.

Hi John and all Audio Circle members.
The price for a Phase One digital back varies from 15,000 USD (30mpix) to 44,000 USD (80mpix) of course this is only for the digital back, no body.
Not all large format cameras back can support the weight of a DSLR.
However, most of the large format manufacturer have al least one model that is made to support heavy weight DSLR.
With a DSLR (Depending on the make and model) on a large format camera you might be limited with some of the movements due to the fact that the sensor is inside a cavity, which is the DSLR body.
Another thing that makes this approach less interesting is that you have to go full manual on the focusing. 
Since the digital revolution about 10 years ago, I have not sold a single large format camera.
Instead, I have sold a few Phase One digital cameras with 30mpix back.
Most of the advertising agencies and the Vietnamese commercial photographers use Canon or Nikon.
One of my customer; is using a Canon 24mpix even for large billboard.
The Vietnamese are not very demanding when it comes to quality and hi-resolution.
Welcome to Vietnam…

Guy 13
 
 

[thunderbrick]

Unless you have to do architecture and/or landscape, you will rarely need a PC lens.
That's my opinion as a weekend semi-professional photographer and a medium and large format importer, distributor, retailer and salesman.

Guy 13

+1!

[PeteG]

I have Canon’s 24mm tilt-shift they also have a 17mm, 45mm and 90mm. It will be my main landscape lens, using tilt for foreground to background focus and shift for side/side and up/down panoramas with great edge-to-edge sharpness.

One would be surprised how versatile this lens is, its one of the sharpest primes out there and it can do (1:2) macro which is pretty close.
Samyang/Rokinon came out with a 24mm tilt-shift this year, I played with it for a week and sent it back (IQ was not to my liking).

Using as a prime, handheld (manual focus) 50% crop.

[PeteG]

I tell you a tilt-shift lens makes you pay more attention than a normal run –n- gun lens.

HDR w/tilt