Speaker systems with tri amp setup

kinku · « **on:** 29 May 2013, 08:01 am »

I am looking for ready to buy 2/3 way speaker systems for using with Bi amp or tri amp configuration.Any good suggestions?

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 May 2013, 12:46 pm »

What's your budget?

Are there any limitations on size of speaker?

HsvHeelFan

rollo · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 May 2013, 01:16 pm »

Just to broad a request. We need to narrow the chase a bit.

charles

lowtech · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 May 2013, 03:13 pm »

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm

kinku · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 May 2013, 05:10 am »

I am considering something between 1000-2000$. As you can guess the purpose is to eliminate passive cross over networks. I was reviewing some studio monitors like Mackie HR864 mk II. Will be for a room of 15x20 size.
Will be used with a sub for two channel stereo listening.what all additional info you guys need?

Norman Tracy · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 May 2013, 10:37 pm »

http://dynaudioprofessional.com/

http://kef.com/html/us/showroom/digital_music_solutions/x300a/fact_sheets/X300A_group/X300A/index.html

http://www.paradigm.com/shift/powered/A2/index.php

WireNut · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 May 2013, 11:02 pm »

Ugh 3-ways. I’ve had bi-amped only systems since the 80’s and probably will till the day I die. The biggest part of a 3-way system is going to be the crossover. The crossover can make or break the system. There are lots of 3-way crossovers in the pro audio world but not so much in the high-end unbalanced and or balanced world. Do you know what 3-way crossover you’re going to be using or are you looking for suggestions

Do you also need 6 channels of amplification or do you already have that

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 May 2013, 11:04 am »

With a subwoofer already in the mix you don't need more than a 2-way. Consider that at the crossover frequency can a dome tweeter and a larger cone of differing materials sound alike? Crossovers only introduce distortion, scramble phasing between drivers, and cause other problems. Can a speaker with several drivers have a coherent sound (for ideal imaging)?

Like Norman, recommend looking at active (2-way) monitors as the simple solution. Someone (more knowledgable than any of us) has already done all the hard work, you just need to audition.

This link offers top picks from a very good (professional site) in your price range: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may12/articles/spotlight-0512.htm

But note: studio monitors are designed to be highly directional (to reduce room interactions) and used near-field (desktop with reduced treble response) versus home audio speakers that are intended to make the sound more enjoyable (musical). Recommend looking for home use reviews/comments. I've been looking into this lately too (but for a more modest budget). Brands/models that have interested me include Adam 3X, Emotiva 5, and Paradigm Shift A2. But in your price range and room size I'd look seriously at the Emotiva Stealth 6 (just released, it's big brother has received raves but with a sub in your room would be overkill).

I'd also recommend considering use of multiple subwoofers. Refer to the bass circle below and the sentinel work of Floyd E. Toole, "Sound Reproduction" that lays out the need for 2 or more subs for domestic use. Also search "swam" for spin-off product offerings/discussions. A smaller/simpler option is the Block Hole sub:

http://www.spatialcomputer.com/page9/page10/page10.html

kinku · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 01:44 am »

Wirenut I recently purchased a Rane RPM 44 DSP which can be used as a two way cross over( or anything you can imagine!!). But I am interested in building /buying stand alone active cross overs if needed.So suggestions are welcome...
JLM great links ...Thank you. I have considered many studio monitors but a little apprehensive about the same reasons you mentioned. They are not made for far field listening. It is true that two way cross over systems are more realistic to build and buy. I have recent experience with a full range speaker DIY and I think one of the reason why it sound so good is absence of any crossover network .
Do you know any speakers made for midfield or far field listening with no passive crossovers...

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 02:30 am »

Full range electrostats, possibly. There are some British and Scandinavian companies building two way actives, but their prices reflect it, oh boy. There are others surely.

Nice link, JLM.

Pez · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 02:40 am »

Heard these at RMAF among the best regardless of price.

http://www.emotivapro.com/products/stealth-8

check out my raving here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110643.0
and here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110562.msg1141666#msg1141666

Having gone active myself I can attest to it being among the ultimate upgrades. But beware, it can lead to...obsessive behavior.

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 06:22 am »

kinku,

Sorry for not being clearer, but the Adam 3X, Emotiva 5, and Paradigm A2 are the audiophile friendlier active monitors I'm looking at, but if bent on spending more (for better) I'd suggest the Emotiva Stealth 6.

Any of the Adam speakers should be good for audiophile use (very popular/respected for studio work). They offer home versions in wood veneers (German - not cheap) and just introduced the "F" series (cheaper/bit more home oriented). All use ribbon tweeters.

Emotiva 4/5/6 are reported a step below the Adam, but is reviewer recommended for in room use. As always YMMV.

The Paradigm A2 was just voted one of Absolute Sound's speaker of the year and is the only one of these without professional aspirations. Note that it is one of only a few sealed active design (good for use with sub) and makes use of DSP to extend bass response at lower volume settings. Years ago Paradigm tried breaking into the field with Active 20 and 40 models which sounded fantastic. I auditioned Active 20 versus Studio 20 (same cabinet/drivers) and it wasn't close. Actives were extremely dynamic, flat frequency response, and had huge/deep/tight bass. In 40 years of listening, one of a hand full of epiphanies. However note that the A2 is "just an active Atom" and cost less than half what the Active 20 did 12 years ago. Hopefully Paradigm will introduce higher end actives.

As you eluded to, the waters are really getting muddied regarding speaker categories: wireless, desktop, PC, studio/professional, lifestyle, etc. And to make it worse of those labels are fighting words for many of those in the other camps. Common thread is computer related use that seemingly has finally woken the market up to the advantages of active design. But to confuse further many consumer designs are only "powered" (crossover is still between source and amp) so most of the active advantages are lost. And all kinds of other arrangements can be found, for examples (priced for stereo use):

- Audioengine A5+ ($400 USD) is powered with remote and single front mounted volume control (sort of one of the 'grand daddys' of this whole genre of speaker). Bass isn't tight, treble is recessed, overall a rather pedestrian sound.

- AVi ADM9RSS ($2200 USD) has analog, multiple digital inputs plus sub output (has it's own DAC/pre-amp), is active and has a remote. Just add a computer for a complete system. I auditioned an earlier version last year and liked it OK (but I'm a proud papa of my "babies" - commissioned speakers).

- Equator D5 ($400 USD) is active with concentric drivers, mail order only (high value), and DSP (used to tweak each monitor to factory standard, but very serious studio slanted type of sound - detail is very pronounced)

- KEF X300A ($800 USD, raved on Tone Audio) has analog and digital inputs (has it's own DAC), is active with concentric drivers. This speaker has a lot going for it, but runs the all inputs through it's DAC and so doesn't offer an "untainted" signal if analog input (or sub) is used.

- SE Munro Egg 150 ($2600 USD) is active but amps/crossovers are external (included in the Sound-on-sound link)

- Sky Blue eXo 2 ($500 USD) is a small 2.1 system with 2-way powered monitors and all 3 amps located in the sub and external hub (from a company with serious professional credentials)

kinku · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 11:13 am »

That is a very detailed reply. Let me audition somewhere Emotiva Stealth.
But I assume all of these speakers uses their own internal power amplifiers and cross over circuits ,which should be ideal and designed for each of those speakers based on their parameters. That is where I find it difficult to assimilate. Here people are spending thousands of dollars for high end amplifiers and tubes and then professionals using these active monitors with Class-D amplifiers. If these are the ones they use to make the recordings ,I found no point in spending money like water for high end Class -A amplifiers and exotic speakers with passive cross overs to listen to those tracks !!!
As a DIYer( means someone likes to waste their money away) I am wondering what if I get a 2 way speaker with passive crossover and take that passive crossover out of the picture and use external amplifiers and active crossovers to make something similar to studio monitors? If that is the path I like to take what are the possible issues that are waiting for me. I know many of the manufactureres does not reveal the cross over frequencies of their speakers. Is there any way to find it?

PRELUDE · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 02:47 pm »

Quote from: kinku on 1 Jun 2013, 11:13 am

That is a very detailed reply. Let me audition somewhere Emotiva Stealth.
But I assume all of these speakers uses their own internal power amplifiers and cross over circuits ,which should be ideal and designed for each of those speakers based on their parameters. That is where I find it difficult to assimilate. Here people are spending thousands of dollars for high end amplifiers and tubes and then professionals using these active monitors with Class-D amplifiers. If these are the ones they use to make the recordings ,I found no point in spending money like water for high end Class -A amplifiers and exotic speakers with passive cross overs to listen to those tracks !!!
As a DIYer( means someone likes to waste their money away) I am wondering what if I get a 2 way speaker with passive crossover and take that passive crossover out of the picture and use external amplifiers and active crossovers to make something similar to studio monitors? If that is the path I like to take what are the possible issues that are waiting for me. I know many of the manufactureres does not reveal the cross over frequencies of their speakers. Is there any way to find it?

Before take any steps.
Do you have any measuring devices and microphone ?
If the answer is NO, do you have a plan to buy one?
Being DIY is to learn, enjoy and take the most out of your money not to waste the money and never promised to be cheap in a way you might think of.
You might need to buy extra tools in order to finish the project and that would be a another spending on the top of your limit that you have been decided to spend.
1.The passive crossover in the speaker box does more the just dividing the frequencies which your active crossover might not able to do it.
2.Any time you talk about crossover that means trouble, and for each trouble there are few ways to overcome it no matter active or passive.

kinku · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 07:36 pm »

thanks Prelude. Yes I do have a Dayton EMM-6 microphone and using REW to measure speakers and room. What other extra tools I need? I do it as a hobby and that is why interested in learning.

PRELUDE · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 07:50 pm »

Quote from: kinku on 1 Jun 2013, 07:36 pm

thanks Prelude. Yes I do have a Dayton EMM-6 microphone and using REW to measure speakers and room. What other extra tools I need? I do it as a hobby and that is why interested in learning.

Good, have you decided what type of active crossover would you want to use?
Analog or digital?

kinku · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jun 2013, 08:46 pm »

I have a Rane RPM 44 DSP with Digital input. So I am planning to use it. It has 4 analog out and a digital out, total of 6 outs,if I use an external DAC.

JLM · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Jun 2013, 04:40 pm »

kinku,

Note that studio monitors are designed to be hyper-detailed to reveal all the "warts" (which tend to make them very fatiguing) and highly directional in a near-field/desktop setting (to minimize room interactions) and so may dial back treble response. Home speakers are designed to make the sound more enjoyable (hard to define) and to work from across the room (hopefully to work well in a variety of rooms). That's why I've mentioned active monitors for home use, they really can be apples and oranges.

Professionals laugh and scratch their heads at the extremes audiophiles go to get the "ideal" sound from various amps/cables.

kinku · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Jun 2013, 05:42 pm »

I had that experience when I talked to someone at Rane.

.I am wondering what other people are using for their cross-over( active), amps and speakers .

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jun 2013, 06:18 pm »

Those Emotive Stealth's are quite a design and much more affordable than I would have thought. They go down to 30hz cleanly according to the spac sheet. Stand mount those bad boys and place them like you would any speaker in your room. Look how the cabinets are beveled away from the ribbon. What a package!