Balanced phono preamp?

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neobop

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Re: Balanced phono preamp?
« Reply #20 on: 1 Jun 2013, 11:12 am »
That's a little more like what I was expecting, which inspired me to look at your systems link.  Still have the Oracle V, SME IV, w/Soundsmith SG400?
Is that the primary table?  The Teres with the Versus, Graham Phantom 2, and Koetsu - wood platter?  How is the Versus working out?

Interesting choices.  I haven't heard an Oracle V.  The Delphi was always a great looking table, maybe the best in the hot looks dept.  The early ones didn't quite live up to their price in the performance dept, guess they didn't have to.  I've read that the new ones change that aspect and are great performers.

Any further comments on your phono systems would be of interest, I'm sure.
neo

I am running 3 tables.  Io is with Teres.  Toshiba is the dedicated mono player or will be once Gary delivers on the phono stage.  Hope his health is better.  The arm in the picture is the original which I removed -- had to desolder the hard wiring inside.  There was a lot of hollow space under the plinth.  I bought a few lb bars of electricians putty and had to run out and hit 2 Home Depot stores (as one ran out) to get all the putty I needed to complete the job.  It's solid now. 

neobop

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Re: Balanced phono preamp?
« Reply #21 on: 3 Jun 2013, 11:00 pm »
I'm not sure how much we illuminated the question of balanced or single ended.  It is interesting to get user impressions.  Balanced configuration seem to be used mostly for tubes, for obvious reasons.  Even if the tube unit isn't fully balanced from input to output, it might still be quieter.

I saw a nice review of Blakep's Aqvox unit.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/3phono/3phono.html

Although XLR adaptors were used on the tonearm cables (audiofool no no) it performed admirably.   Single ended inputs were only available for MM input so I'm not sure if direct comparison is meaningful if the balanced part is LOMC only and it's really designed for that.   It seems that gain selection for MC does away with need for loading.  Looks like a good buy for MC users.
neo

woodsyi

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Re: Balanced phono preamp?
« Reply #22 on: 4 Jun 2013, 07:28 pm »
That's a little more like what I was expecting, which inspired me to look at your systems link.  Still have the Oracle V, SME IV, w/Soundsmith SG400?
Is that the primary table?  The Teres with the Versus, Graham Phantom 2, and Koetsu - wood platter?  How is the Versus working out?

Interesting choices.  I haven't heard an Oracle V.  The Delphi was always a great looking table, maybe the best in the hot looks dept.  The early ones didn't quite live up to their price in the performance dept, guess they didn't have to.  I've read that the new ones change that aspect and are great performers.

Any further comments on your phono systems would be of interest, I'm sure.
neo

I consider both primary.  I didn't go for the wood platter since I thought lead shot acrylic was already smooth and organic enough as it is mated with Koetsu and Io.  Verus is trouble free and has no problem spinning the platter accurately even when 2 Kg of gunmetal mat was added.  The speed lock on within a few seconds.  Phantom 2 is the best arm for adjustment that I have ever had and the Magneglide really provides lateral stability on a true uni-pivot design.   This lateral stability is the focus of the Delphi MK VI.  A couple of years ago, I heard the difference at RMAF.  When the  Micro Vibration Stabilizer System was engaged, the imaging and details went up a notch.  The spring suspension always had lateral wiggle room even though it was designed to provide vertical suspension.  MK VI adds these gizmos (silicone damping trough on the plinth with plunger attached to platter suspended in it) near each foot (where the spring is housed).  This provides lateral support much like the Graham Magneglide although in this case it addresses more lateral displacement than azimuth.  It also damps the vertical springing to minimize recoil.   Anyway the darned thing works.  I was told I can retrofit the Mk V with this  Micro Vibration Stabilizer System but it has to be factory installed and matched to my springs and bearing.  The cost was 2K then.   Hope it hasn't gone up too much.  I am going to get it done one of these days.

Soundsmith Strainguage actually is a bargain when you consider that the price includes cartridge, phonostage and/or linestage (multiple input) depending on the model.  It's one of the best bargains I pulled off when I got this almost new system used.  The fact that it does not depend on coils or magnets on the pick up but, rather, the electrical signal is constituted in the preamp from the resistance differential from the unfettered pickup eliminates a lot of potential pitfalls in vinyl play.  It plays in the same league at the statement level of any of the best analog gear and (in my case) it's 1/6th of the cost of Io/Koetsu.   It does everything well in a balanced way.  I did have to find the right cabling to tame it's hotness when I first plugged it in my system.  Some records were just too bright when I used silver IC in the chain.  I had Alex from Wywire make a phono cable in his gold line and changed out the rest of IC in the chain with the same.  Now it's superb.  I use in on instrumental heavy music.  I still prefer the Teres setup on Operas and vocal heavy music.  The Koetsu bloom and tonal richness of Io make gorgeous singing.  So what if it's distortion -- it's euphonic to my ears!  8)

This brings me to a philosophical conclusion I have come to in this hobby.  There is no jack of all trade best system no matter how much you spend.  There will always be something that does some aspect better than others.  The trick is finding out what you want and putting your system together so you like your system.  I don't mean some bizarre distorted sound.  The are some objective parameters of good music playback but there is a lot of artistic leeway within the parameters.  I am very partial to what I call cohesive and rich tonality.  I am not sure if it's the same as even harmonics/odd harmonics thing but it's probably a part of it.  I also prefer live indoor acoustic concerts more than outdoor -- acoustic or amplified.  Indoor amplified concert is a hit or miss.  Most of the time they are too loud.  I like the sound of natural room gain (distortion) of acoustic sound. 

Strathmore


and Blues Alley


are two of my favorite venue for concerts.


I want that sound in my room. 

Sorry for meandering afar from the original question.  I prefer balanced over single end for my LOMC playback if I could choose the topology.

neobop

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Re: Balanced phono preamp?
« Reply #23 on: 5 Jun 2013, 12:59 pm »
I consider both primary.  I didn't go for the wood platter since I thought lead shot acrylic was already smooth and organic enough as it is mated with Koetsu and Io.  Verus is trouble free and has no problem spinning the platter accurately even when 2 Kg of gunmetal mat was added.  The speed lock on within a few seconds.  Phantom 2 is the best arm for adjustment that I have ever had and the Magneglide really provides lateral stability on a true uni-pivot design.   This lateral stability is the focus of the Delphi MK VI.  A couple of years ago, I heard the difference at RMAF.  When the  Micro Vibration Stabilizer System was engaged, the imaging and details went up a notch.  The spring suspension always had lateral wiggle room even though it was designed to provide vertical suspension.  MK VI adds these gizmos (silicone damping trough on the plinth with plunger attached to platter suspended in it) near each foot (where the spring is housed).  This provides lateral support much like the Graham Magneglide although in this case it addresses more lateral displacement than azimuth.  It also damps the vertical springing to minimize recoil.   Anyway the darned thing works.  I was told I can retrofit the Mk V with this  Micro Vibration Stabilizer System but it has to be factory installed and matched to my springs and bearing.  The cost was 2K then.   Hope it hasn't gone up too much.  I am going to get it done one of these days.

Soundsmith Strainguage actually is a bargain when you consider that the price includes cartridge, phonostage and/or linestage (multiple input) depending on the model.  It's one of the best bargains I pulled off when I got this almost new system used.  The fact that it does not depend on coils or magnets on the pick up but, rather, the electrical signal is constituted in the preamp from the resistance differential from the unfettered pickup eliminates a lot of potential pitfalls in vinyl play.  It plays in the same league at the statement level of any of the best analog gear and (in my case) it's 1/6th of the cost of Io/Koetsu.   It does everything well in a balanced way.  I did have to find the right cabling to tame it's hotness when I first plugged it in my system.  Some records were just too bright when I used silver IC in the chain.  I had Alex from Wywire make a phono cable in his gold line and changed out the rest of IC in the chain with the same.  Now it's superb.  I use in on instrumental heavy music.  I still prefer the Teres setup on Operas and vocal heavy music.  The Koetsu bloom and tonal richness of Io make gorgeous singing.  So what if it's distortion -- it's euphonic to my ears!  8)

This brings me to a philosophical conclusion I have come to in this hobby.  There is no jack of all trade best system no matter how much you spend.  There will always be something that does some aspect better than others.  The trick is finding out what you want and putting your system together so you like your system.  I don't mean some bizarre distorted sound.  The are some objective parameters of good music playback but there is a lot of artistic leeway within the parameters.  I am very partial to what I call cohesive and rich tonality.  I am not sure if it's the same as even harmonics/odd harmonics thing but it's probably a part of it.  I also prefer live indoor acoustic concerts more than outdoor -- acoustic or amplified.  Indoor amplified concert is a hit or miss.  Most of the time they are too loud.  I like the sound of natural room gain (distortion) of acoustic sound. 

Strathmore and Blues Alley
are two of my favorite venue for concerts.

I want that sound in my room. 

Sorry for meandering afar from the original question.  I prefer balanced over single end for my LOMC playback if I could choose the topology.

Thanks for the elucidation.  Tell you the truth, I find it more interesting than a comparison of balanced vs single ended.   I've reached the conclusion that a unit will sound best in the mode it was designed for, and it's nearly meaningless to seek a comparison.  My AHT is single ended and to attempt to convert it to balanced operation would degrade the sound.  Because the S/N is practically immeasurable (exceeded designers test equipment) and both side of the waveform are fully regulated, what would be the point?  But it's not for everyone.  Like you say, one has to find combinations of equipment that works for them. Our systems evolve over many years and many different pieces of equipment.  I used to listen to few vocals and had no desire for a "romantic" cartridge or anything else.  Still don't. 

The brief description of your SG 400 is most interesting.  I wasn't aware of the tendency toward brightness, but every time I hook up a component or change carts, I select an appropriate cable or switch to one.  Maybe conventional carts like silver because the voltage is so low and silver is the best conductor? 

Someone on another forum who lives in Georgetown, recently complained about the sound in Blues Alley.  I can't remember who he saw, but everyone in the small group of musicians was amplified, and apparently the guy at the mixing board was incompetent.  I hate when that happens.  Sometimes these stupid clubs don't know when to quit.  If the singer needs a boost why can't they leave it at that?  The bass has its own amp and there's no need to amplify horns or drums in a small venue. 
Strathmore looks like nice concert hall.  You would have liked the old Academy of Music in Philly.  The sound was rich and full.  With the strings of the Phila Orchestra it was really special. 

neo