[mdconnelly]

One thing I haven't tried (yet) is stuffing dacron in the rear ports and keeping the speakers within a foot of the corners.   Can anyone comment on what that is specifically doing to the response curve?   It would be great to get a better understanding on that.

[gbeard]

I have mine on the short wall (12.5 feet wide) too. I spent a long time trying them in various positions. They are not as easy to dial in as the VR-22, but they do so much more. Currently mine are 9" from the back wall, and 28" to the edge from side wall (open on the other side, but there are some obstructive "treatments") I think they sound terrific, but that's just me. 

[BigSwede]

gbeard, you have heard both the 22s and 33s I take it? I'd be interested in your thoughts comparing the two.

[mdconnelly]

I have mine on the short wall (12.5 feet wide) too. I spent a long time trying them in various positions. They are not as easy to dial in as the VR-22, but they do so much more. Currently mine are 9" from the back wall, and 28" to the edge from side wall (open on the other side, but there are some obstructive "treatments") I think they sound terrific, but that's just me. 

Interesting, having them that far out from the side wall in a 12.5' room means you have the speakers fairly close together (a bit over 6' center-to-center if my math is correct).   How close is your listening position to the speakers?  I'm curious to know what it does to your soundstage. 

I actually can't move my speakers that close together because I've got a salamander cabinet between them.  So I'm battling not only room corners but the corner between front wall and cabinet as well.  But, I'm quite happy and surprised by how much the bass tightened up by pushing the speakers to just 3" from the front wall (from the 8" I previously had them).  Seems counter-intuitive, but damned if it doesn't work well.   

[gbeard]

Interesting, having them that far out from the side wall in a 12.5' room means you have the speakers fairly close together (a bit over 6' center-to-center if my math is correct).   How close is your listening position to the speakers?  I'm curious to know what it does to your soundstage. 

I actually can't move my speakers that close together because I've got a salamander cabinet between them.  So I'm battling not only room corners but the corner between front wall and cabinet as well.  But, I'm quite happy and surprised by how much the bass tightened up by pushing the speakers to just 3" from the front wall (from the 8" I previously had them).  Seems counter-intuitive, but damned if it doesn't work well.   

Yes, they are that close together. I wanted to avoid corner loading since I only have a corner on one side. I did move my seated position up closer --approximately 9 feet or so away. Any farther back and the bass starts to overwhelm. This seems to give me a tight and musical arraignment with little penalty in sound stage width. There is, perhaps, a bit less depth and a tad bit more forward stage, but definitely not a bubble. You should note that I have some additional volume of space behind and to the side of the main area of my room, but from wall to wall it is 16' long. I think I can still improve it a little and the seem to be very sensitive (in a good way) to amplification...

[gme109]

I realize this is a somewhat old thread, but the topic is all about VR-35 speaker placement so here goes...

I've been the proud owner of the VR-35s now for 2 years!  How time flies.

When I first got them, they were on the long wall in my 12'x24' living room. They sounded great there placed about 8" from the front wall and far, far from the side walls.  Bass was tight, deep and tuneful and the soundstage was to die for extending well beyond speaker boundaries.  But... then we started a remodeling job and I decided to move them into a smaller room and integrate them into my home theater setup.  What that meant was moving them from the long wall to the short 12' wall in a 12'x18' room. 

Alas, that didn't go so well and had me scratching my head.  The bass became a bit overwhelming and less controlled and soundstage collapsed.  My instinct was to pull the speakers closer together to get them away from the corners.  I also pulled them more out into the room trying to tame the bass (even though VSA says they are at their best when essentially against the front wall).  Well, that sure didn't work.  If anything, the more I pulled them out, the less controlled the bass became with less focus in the soundstage.   

So with more time over the holidays to play with it, I took a different approach. I moved them to within 3" of the front wall and 14" from side wall (from speaker edge) which placed them just a bit over 8' apart.  Damn if that didn't make a big difference!  Bass tightened up dramatically with far better slam.  The soundstage and image focus was also much improved.   Even just pulling them out to 8" from the front wall as I had them in the other room had a noticeable negative effect on bass and slam.  Now that surprised me.  I need to learn to listen to Albert when he says they are best when against the wall.

I'll continue to tweak positioning a bit but now in much smaller increments.  And I might just need to break down and consider some room treatments. 

Anyone else out there with similar VR-22/VR-33/VR-35 speaker placement stories?   It does seem that these speakers make most everything I thought I knew about speaker placement somewhat obsolete.   

Mike

Your current room is close to the dimensions of my listening room. I have my VR-35's set up on the short wall of a 13' 6"x 18'  room. I also struggled with overwhelming bass, and at one point ended up placing them 22" from the front wall, and 24" from the edge to side wall, in order to tame the bass. Currently I have them 16" from the front wall, and 25" from the edge to side wall. I have not however tried them 3" from the front wall, and any closer than 24" to the side walls. Like you, it went against my instinct to move them closer to boundary walls, when trying to tame bass. My bad for not considering the manufacture's suggestions. I will however now, thanks to your post, try placing them closer to the front and side walls.

[mdconnelly]

I've still got them just 3" from the front wall, but continue to tweak lateral placement trying to balance tonal balance and soundstage.  Pulling them much further away from the front wall definitely seems to increase bass boominess.  I currently have them 16" from side wall to speaker edge.   

gme109 - I'll be very interested to hear your results.   I'm sure every room is different, but then, so are these speakers.

[gme109]

I've still got them just 3" from the front wall, but continue to tweak lateral placement trying to balance tonal balance and soundstage.  Pulling them much further away from the front wall definitely seems to increase bass boominess.  I currently have them 16" from side wall to speaker edge.   

gme109 - I'll be very interested to hear your results.   I'm sure every room is different, but then, so are these speakers.

I thank you for your posting your findings, it nudged me to reposition my speakers, something I should've tried much earlier, based on Albert's recommendations.

I started out by placing them 5" off the front wall, and 21" off the back edge of the speaker to the side wall. OMG what an improvement! I first listened to a track from Lucinda Williams Essence cd, and the first thing I noticed was an improvement in soundstage and image focus. The speakers are now 9' apart, so the soundstage is now much wider, but to my surprise, the soundstage is also much taller and deeper as well, and Lucinda Williams voice just seems to float between the speakers sounding much more focused and vibrant. I then popped in the Burmester 3 cd and listened to some bass intense tracks. I thought I was getting good bass before, but the difference now is night and day! The improvement extends from the deepest notes up through the mid bass, providing a tighter and more powerful bass. The initial drum whack on track 10, of Yim Hok-Man / Poem Of Chinese Drums, about knocked me out of my listening chair! I then moved them to 4" off the front wall and 20" from the edge of the speaker to the side wall. Again to my surprise, there was another improvement in soundstage depth, and the bass became even tighter, the complete opposite of what you'd expect from most any other speaker. Overall the new speaker placement has yielded a more seamless quality to the music, both in soundstage presentation and tonality. The soundstage has not only expanded in all directions, but instruments and vocals are more solidly anchored within it, creating a very realistic and lifelike portrayal of the original venue. Tonality has also been greatly enhanced, with a gutsier and more sure footed bottom end, and greater presents in the mid range, the overall frequency response has really gelled and become very coherent.

Sure glad I decided to experiment further with speaker placement, even though it totally contradicts everything that applies to most other speakers. 

[gbeard]

gme,

If you read my VR-22 article on PF, I think you will note that I also, couldn't believe that these speaker designs throw in the face of convention. Thinking bass could not possibly get tighter by moving them back. Still, I struggled with finding the best location for the 35s and while I now believe I am very close, there is more tweaking to be done. Also, because I use so many different amps, I have found that each throws a little different soundstage. That said, based upon your findings, I think I will spread mine farther apart again and see if I can tame the corner. While I really like the set up now, I think I may be able to improve them even more with a 4-6" move laterally to that 20"-22" off the wall distance. I will report my findings!

Cheers and happy listening!
g

[gme109]

gme,

If you read my VR-22 article on PF, I think you will note that I also, couldn't believe that these speaker designs throw in the face of convention. Thinking bass could not possibly get tighter by moving them back. Still, I struggled with finding the best location for the 35s and while I now believe I am very close, there is more tweaking to be done. Also, because I use so many different amps, I have found that each throws a little different soundstage. That said, based upon your findings, I think I will spread mine farther apart again and see if I can tame the corner. While I really like the set up now, I think I may be able to improve them even more with a 4-6" move laterally to that 20"-22" off the wall distance. I will report my findings!

Cheers and happy listening!
g

When I was breaking in the VR-35's I did try them close to the wall behind them, and the bass was overwhelming. That was one of the reasons I didn't return them to that location. I should've known better.

I forgot, what size is your room?

[gbeard]

All,

Better late than never perhaps... I had rotator cuff surgery a little over 8 weeks ago, so I have not been able to change the position of my speakers. Tonight (with a bit of help), I moved them back to 7.5" and move the one in the corner to 22" to the edge. Also, I have thrown my REL sub back in the mix too. I don't have the sub quite dialed in yet, but I think I have improved the sound even more. My room is roughly 12x16, but kinda complicated with the added volume around it...even so, the bass is not at all overwhelming. But, if I move around the room, there are places where it is kind of woolly.

Big Swede, I didn't notice your post before regarding the 22s, I have not heard the 33s, only the 35s. IMO, they both have a similar approach to sound, but the 22s are much easier to dial in and are not as fussy about amplification. I gave the 22s my only PF year-end award. They are just an outstanding value. The 35s are much more sophisticated and in turn, take a bit more work to sound their very best. I am still finding new ways to improve them. I don't have a perfect room either, but I can overcome some of the issues with a little work.  I will be getting a pair of 180w KT120 monos to try very soon and I expect they may be really great with the 35s. It should be interesting to find out what they can do with that much tube power.

It should be fun! I will report...

[BigSwede]

Thanks...I realized after I posted that we were talking about VR-35s not 33s...similar, but not the same. Still, I was curious what your thoughts were.

[gme109]

All,

Better late than never perhaps... I had rotator cuff surgery a little over 8 weeks ago, so I have not been able to change the position of my speakers. Tonight (with a bit of help), I moved them back to 7.5" and move the one in the corner to 22" to the edge. Also, I have thrown my REL sub back in the mix too. I don't have the sub quite dialed in yet, but I think I have improved the sound even more. My room is roughly 12x16, but kinda complicated with the added volume around it...even so, the bass is not at all overwhelming. But, if I move around the room, there are places where it is kind of woolly.

Big Swede, I didn't notice your post before regarding the 22s, I have not heard the 33s, only the 35s. IMO, they both have a similar approach to sound, but the 22s are much easier to dial in and are not as fussy about amplification. I gave the 22s my only PF year-end award. They are just an outstanding value. The 35s are much more sophisticated and in turn, take a bit more work to sound their very best. I am still finding new ways to improve them. I don't have a perfect room either, but I can overcome some of the issues with a little work.  I will be getting a pair of 180w KT120 monos to try very soon and I expect they may be really great with the 35s. It should be interesting to find out what they can do with that much tube power.

It should be fun! I will report...

Are you running the 35's full range with your sub, or do you have them crossed over, using the sub's high pass filter?

[gbeard]

I have my REL set to come in at 25Hz, so I am just supporting the lowest bass. I've been experimenting with Bi-amping, but right now am running the VRs with a pair of CIA D-100B mono's. Sounds kick ass. Not as refined as my tube amp/F4 combo on the MTM, but certainly a lot more guts!   

The tweaking of the location has really opened them up. I can't wait to try 180watts of tube power on them!!!

(I can't write tonight...)

[Live it Production]

I have VR35's and have a situation where placing them close to the wall is impossible. So I did the next best thing and placed a piece of 2 inch thick maple butcher block behind the speaker. The wood is the width of the cabinet and goes up to the woofer port. The bass went from boomy to super tight. The speakers are 20 inches from the back wall. I think having the wood or a wall with in 2 to 4 inches brings the bass into the timing of the MTM and just makes the VR 35's sublime speaker from top to bottom. It might be worth trying a solid wood piece behind the speaker even if they are close to the wall for even better bass. Worth a try.

[mdconnelly]

Now that's an interesting concept and might prove to work far better than just placing them close to interior sheetrock walls.   

Mike