DAC for Mac Book

tipatina · « **on:** 14 Mar 2013, 03:51 pm »

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/features/

Newbie question here.
From looking at this it seems like USB DAC is the only option. Anyone have any experience DAC for this computer?

srb · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 03:59 pm »

The audio line out jack is a combination analog output / optical S/PDIF digital output (Mini TOSLINK), so a DAC with an optical input is also an option.

The question of which DAC to use will vary widely. Generally the optical is limited to 24/96 resolution, so if you want higher resolution capability up to 24/192 you should probably get a USB DAC (that has an input capable of that resolution).

If you state your budget, you will get many recommendations.

Steve

Cheerwino · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 04:02 pm »

I like my little Objective Dac. You can also get just the chip and put it in your own case. They often pop up used around here, too.

Other folks seem to like the little Stoner Acoustics Dac (just a chip) or the HiFimeDIY Sabre Dac. You can, of course spend much, much more...

Hope this helps.

Cheerwino · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 04:05 pm »

Quote from: srb on 14 Mar 2013, 03:59 pm

The audio line out jack is a combination analog output / optical S/PDIF digital output (Mini TOSLINK), so a DAC with an optical input is also an option.

Steve

I thought they dropped that on the newer ones, though.

That's a shame because I liked the flexibility. Makes me not feel so bad about having an old MBP.

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: Cheerwino on 14 Mar 2013, 04:05 pm

I thought they dropped that on the newer ones, though. That's a shame because I liked the flexibility. Makes me not feel so bad about having an old MBP.

Steve

Jpbas1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 05:39 pm »

I have a MacBook Pro 13" and utilize the Toslink that is still available utilizing the headphone out/jack. An adapter is required to fit to the end of your conventional TosLink cable; but it is the ONLY way to appreciate a high resolution output from the MacBook Pro as the USB out is only able to output at CD quality 16/44; while the TosLink accommodates at least to 24/96kHz but a modification must be made under the MIDI out section of the MacBook audio section.

I am currently utilizing a Musical Fidelity M1DAC and Hegel HD11 DAC w/ superb results. As a matter of fact both are for sale; because I only need one of them.

Good luck and let me know if I can be of any assistance....

Jpbas1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 05:42 pm »

Steve,

Quick question. If the USB outputs at 16/44 and the optical at 24/96; would you need an upsampling DAC to get the 24/192 performance? A non-oversampling unit; wouldn't be able to do that, right or am I way off here?

Thank you...
-John

neekomax · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 05:50 pm »

This thread has me a bit confused. My previous assumptions were that both USB and Toslink outputs on the MBP (mine is 2010 15") are capable of 24 bit/X (forget the details) throughput, but your DAC must be capable of decoding such.

Also, per your screenshot, Steve, any idea what 'support for lin out (audio/digital)' means? (Just curious)

WC · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 06:09 pm »

USB should be able to go 24/192 if your DAC can handle it.

WC · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 06:12 pm »

Quote from: neekomax on 14 Mar 2013, 05:50 pm

Also, per your screenshot, Steve, any idea what 'support for lin out (audio/digital)' means? (Just curious)

Appears to just be written differently. Should still have the ability to plug in both types.

jarcher · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Mar 2013, 06:38 pm »

I think while toslink optical should theoretically be the optimal data transmission link, the transmitter / receiver quality and other aspects having to do with the conversion of electrical to optical is less than ideal and really degrades the audio quality vs a well implemented USB or Coaxial digital. As least that was my experience with a Mac Mini & Imac and I assume a macbook pro would be the same.

Far as I know all Mac's (and PCs) can do any resolution out of the USB 2, though you're DAC will have to be able to support it. E.g. the Benchmark DAC2 HGC does up to 24 / 192 over USB2 (with a driver for Windows / none for MAC).

Earlier USB DAC's seemed to be limited to 24 / 96, but now some (though not most yet) can support 24 / 192.

I were choosing an ideal DAC for a PC based music server, it would have an asynchronous USB that supports up to 24 / 192. Unfortunately as of right now that leaves a lot of good DACs out of contention until they come out with newer models with upgraded USB support.

In the meantime another alternative is to use a DAC you like and a USB / SPDIF converter. I use / own with a Mac Mini & Imac a Hiface2 (24/192 about $200) and a Bel Canto Mlink (also 24/192 about $375 retail). They are both good, but the Bel Canto is better & worth the upgrade.

Perhaps the best deal of all is the VLink 192, which is also 24 / 192, and is considered to be somewhat on the warmer side. It retails for about $200.

Of course if you can be happy with 24 / 96 you will have a lot more options for USB DACs - or even an economical USB / SDIF convertor from Music Fidelity (like the Vlink II at about $130). E.g. the Audioquest Dragonfly is a 24 / 96 USB DAC / headphone amp that is highly rated @ $250 retail.

Not sure what kind of budget you have in mind......but I guess the main point I'm trying to make is I suggest finding some options that uses the USB out of the MBP - not the toslink.

tipatina · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Mar 2013, 03:51 pm »

Thanks to everyone for your responses. This question arose from exploring the Bifrost DAC option and ffom what I seem to read on the web site they prefer non-USB but do have it as an option. Was also looking at the Van Alstine DAC's which don't have USB. It looks like I can do either if indeed the "audio line out (digital/analog)" means that optical/spdif is supported. Plan to use the DAC for my 2 channel system and begin to play around with hires files and listen to online radio (KUSC and WWOZ). Any other suggestions including software, etc for a newbie are appreciated.

jarcher · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Mar 2013, 04:50 pm »

A USB / SPDIF convertor is going to give you a lot more options as far as DAC's and allow you to use the best input to a DAC, which is typically the coaxial (RCA) digital input. The optical out of the MAC is the easiest option, but not the best in my experience.

The best cheapest convertors I think are from Music Fidelity, with the VLINK II (24/96) available from Audio Advisor @ $166 and the VLINK 192 (24/192) available from Music Direct @ $199. Audio Advisor also has a demo sale on a Stello U2 24/96 @ $179 which is a good unit, but too warm in my experience.

For software I'd suggest either Audiovarna or Pure Music on top of Itunes. In "Memory Play" mode you'll notice a substantial improvement in a cleaner and wider / deeper soundstage. I use Pure Music because it sounds good, has the most features, and the license allows use on an unlimited # of computers.

InfernoSTi · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Mar 2013, 06:31 pm »

24/96 is really quite nice...especially if you are just getting into off-board DACs. I agree that optical should be better but simply isn't. I've had good luck with the V-Link II with my DAC (Eastern Electric) but for me the improvement was with jitter reduction...the timing of things got really clean more than anything else. +1 on the Dragonfly DAC, as well.

Best,
John

Vincent Kars · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Mar 2013, 12:11 pm »

OSX supports UAC2 from mid-2010 on.
UAC2= USB Audio Class 2 and it supports 24 bit PCM > 96 kHz.
A lot of recent DACs do support UAC2 and provide asynchronous synchronization.

The Toslink standard is limited to 24/96.
OSX adheres to this standard.
If you run Win on a Mac you can go higher because modern Toslink hardware is capable of more than the standard allows for.

Optical has the advantage of a 100% galvanic isolation. In general its jitter level is a bit higher than SPDIF over coax.

Noseyears · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Mar 2013, 02:54 pm »

If your budget allows it, the Da-160 is a worthwhile unit with lots of connectivity options:

(if you check burson website, team burson are mac users)

tipatina · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar 2013, 03:39 am »

Thanks again to everyone for your replies and ideas. I was also thinking of an entry level HRT Music Streamer 2+. This will allow USB and looks like it works easily with a Mac. Any experince with this DAC would be appreciated. The rest of the system is Van Alstine T8+ pre, Bryston 4B SST, Vandersteen 3A sig speakers. (I also have Cambridge 840CD and rebuilt Thorens 160 with Origin Live Arm/Grado Ref. Sonata). I have a large CD and vinyl collection but as I mentioned want to start fooling around with HiRes and internet radio. Thanks again.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Mar 2013, 04:02 am »

I would get a Meridian Explorer. Great reviews, updateable firmware. Good as portable DAC but not embarrased in the big system. Bonus that it plays 24/192, a variable and fixed output. As well as an optical output. But most important is the sound. Go out and audition one. Find a dealer with a good return policy or with one for you to audition. Then report back here on what you hear.

geowak · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Mar 2013, 04:42 am »

For a budget DAC I like the Schiit Audio Bifrost and Gungnir. I have the Bifrost and love the neutral sound. For a higher end, I like the Benchmark DACs. I have the USB DAC1. The Benchmark sounds fabulous even though they are not the new kid on the DAC block.

jarcher · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Mar 2013, 04:11 pm »

At the HRT Music Streamer 2+ price, if you can swing a bit higher it seems that the Schiit Bifrost, Music Fidelity VDACII (w/ or w/out upgraded power supply), and perhaps the Halide Design DAC HD might all be better choices at under $500. The MS & Halide both rank higher w/ stereophile and I think with good reason. The Halide seems to have a lot of good cabling + decent receiver & coding, though the wolfson dac chip is not the last word. The MS VDACII the advantage of being able to use your choice of cabling and upgrading the power supply and probably better on the analog side. It was criticized for being a bit dry and not having the tightest bass vs the Halide.

The HRT claims isolation from the computer, but somehow I don't think it's a good ideal to be drawing power from the computers USB bus, as convenient as it may seem not have another power supply to plug in. I've found that power supply quality makes a significant difference with DACs. The Halide Design DAC HD would seem to have this same limitation, though the Stereophile review didn't mention it (and still seemed to prefer it vs the MS VDACII).

For the above reasons, if it were my money I would probably be looking at the Schiit Bifrost, but just pure opinion / speculation on my part though as I've not personally heard any of the above products.