[MRC]

Hi,

I've been using a couple of Richard Gray Power Company's 400 Pro's for awhile, and late last year I decided to buy a Quantum QRT Qbase 8, after careful auditioning.

I've tried using one of the 400's with the Qbase, but I've found the sound much more open without the 400 plugged into the Qbase.
I'm a bit puzzled.
The 400 was essential for my analogue system when used with a PS Audio Juicebar II (wonderful creatures. I own 3. Now laying in wait.)
With the Qbase, it all gets heavy handed, strangely shut in. Almost like digital versus a good turntable. The only major difference the Qbase brings is the centralized Primary Earth star system. Could it be at odds with the RGPC's balanced surge protection?...
Has anyone tried a similar mix (RGPC power delivery with Quantum Qbases)?

[Waker]

Have not tried the Quantum--looked on their site, not sure what they do---Scalar energy field theory?  I have used RGPC 400's, at one point, three at a time, until I went to their 1200C.  These are a front-end application, not for use with amps. Just plug each of the 400's into the wall and run only one source to each, such as a pre-amp and a CD player, but nothing else--just baby two low-wattage sources, each with its own 400.  The 1200C will serve all of your sources, but again, not for amps.  Get the much bigger Torus or RGPC isolation transformers for your amps. These will output 2K or more watts to your amps. You can then plug your 400's into the bigger transformers, then to your front end pieces. I'm not sure where the Quantum would fit into this, however.  Perhaps it should serve only one component, such as a turntable.   

[MRC]

Hi Waker, thanks for the input.

The Quantum Qbase 8 is merely a power strip, although sporting Nordost cabling, a PCB instead of hard wiring connections and a star earth system which leads all earth points to a central outlet (primary earth) and to a "clean earth" terminal (so you can connect to a ground reference point besides the wall socket). It does not incorporate conditioning.

Thanks also for the RGPC tips. Right now I'm using completely separate audio and dvd systems, audio being analogue and vision being, of course, digital. I'm using two 400 Pro's in sequence (one 400 to the wall, the other 400 plugged into the first) for the dvd set up.
In that case the amp and Lcd are plugged into the 400 connected to the wall socket and the blu ray is plugged into the second 400. It works pretty well, though I'm considering changing over to Juicebar II, Lcd inserted first from current entry, next amp, then 400 pro with Blu Ray on. This will allow a free 400 Pro to experiment with the Qbase further. Besides, as you point out, leaving high current devices out of the Pro's is recommended. By the way, nice system. Have to put mine up there.

[rollo]

  It was my understanding that  the Richard Gray is used in the duplex outlet with nothing connected to it. If say for example one plugs the RG into the same duplex outlet feeding amps and front end, does not the RG affect the amps ? It is an isolation trannie of sorts, no ?
   It is my understanding that a separate circuit for the front end and amps are required when using multiple RGs. Please correct me if my understanding is just wrong.


charles

[Waker]

Yes, the 400's, plugged into a wall receptacle, will also benefit other devices on that same circuit, but high-powered amps should be plugged directly into the wall, and low-wattage devices plugged into the receptacles on the 400's. The 400's together can easily supply all your front end, including TV, DVD, pre-amp, CDP, turntable, etc.  I was being a bit conservative when I said only one item per 400s, because I had the original models, not the Pro model.  Yes, they are min-transformers, in that they supply wattage, but not enough for sustained power, as I understand it. Look for deals on 'gon for new units. MRC, probably best not to insert a power strip between the 400's and the wall--direct is best. Heavy tranformers trump power strips. 

[MRC]

Waker, the power strip issue makes a very interesting point.

I once got in touch with RGPC to discuss some details regarding the 400s, and proposed at the time that a non conditioned, high quality strip, fed by a high current, quality power cord, was permissible to use with the 400 plugged into it, treating and feeding the strip as a single circuit for the system.
This allows you to have a direct, single point source of current for your setup as a whole, avoiding "splitting" components placement order by using more than one wall outlet (unless you have a run of 4 or 5 outlets on the same wall and circuit).
Additionally, a quality strip usually has better outlets, connections and conductors for the current to go through than the average wall outlet set. They said it was not a bad idea. Obviously, instinctively and rationally I'd say that the less connections and cable between a powerful device and the current, the better.
That said, high current devices into the 400 are not advised. They do propose A/B comparisons to decide what you prefer, but warn that amps in particular may be subdued. If you decide to plug amps and the like into the 400s, then I agree that no power strip should be used.
Regarding the 400 Pro's does anyone know if they actually remove noise or just supply extra power and provide surge protection? If they do remove noise, that may explain why I did not like one plugged* into the Quantum Qbase 8 strip. Are there any Quantum owners out there?

*I'm yet to sample a noise removal attempt, with analogue, which does not degrade the sound. With digital, well...

[Waker]

MRC, you have done all the homework.  All that remains is trying all the possible combinations to see what sounds the best, such as plugging your amps into the Quantum, which is to the wall, and the 400's into the wall.  It seems you have already had a bad result one way--have to experiment.  How big are your amp(s)?

[rollo]

Yes, the 400's, plugged into a wall receptacle, will also benefit other devices on that same circuit, but high-powered amps should be plugged directly into the wall, and low-wattage devices plugged into the receptacles on the 400's. The 400's together can easily supply all your front end, including TV, DVD, pre-amp, CDP, turntable, etc.  I was being a bit conservative when I said only one item per 400s, because I had the original models, not the Pro model.  Yes, they are min-transformers, in that they supply wattage, but not enough for sustained power, as I understand it. Look for deals on 'gon for new units. MRC, probably best not to insert a power strip between the 400's and the wall--direct is best. Heavy tranformers trump power strips.

   Agreed. The Amps need a separate circuit  of their own not be affecteted. We own a RG 400. Using two duplex receptacles on one dedicated separate circuit. When I plug the RG into the outlet  for the CDP the amps are affected as well. If I plug the RG into the Uberbuss same effect if other components are connected to the Uberbuss. My experience.


charles
     

[MRC]

Gentlemen, I got the bug, and I've actually got it bad. In no small measure due to your interesting comments.

I've disconnected everything around, and am going to try new 400/Quantum/component placement experiences. And I thought - no messing with the systems today after work.  But who was I really kidding? I'll get back as soon as possible... Thanks for the thoughts.

Charles, I'll get back to you on that. Waker, these are the amps (one for audio, other for dvd): http://www.xtz.se/en/products/electronics/class-ap100-svart

[Waker]

Interesting amps, with class A and A/B modes.  A standard 15 amp circuit, outputting around 1600 watts,  should supply enough power for that amp, especially with the 400s to augment your front end pieces, but maybe you should unplug everything else on that circuit, such as lamps, TV, computers, etc. Charles, you probably have a higher capacity circuit.  I took the easy way out and kept spending money.  From the three 400's, I went to the RGPC 240v/120v isolation transformer, which supplied around 2400 watts continuous, also added the 1200C to get rid of all the cords.  When I went to monoblocks and two subs, I upgraded to their RM PRO, a beast that puts out 4000 watts.  When you finally get more than enough power to a bigger system, the difference is profound.  I found both of these on 'gon at half price, new in the box.  One guy never got around to installing a 240V circuit, and the other guy was a pro installer who had an extra RM PRO from a big job.  I've gone on and on--best of luck in finding pure sound.             

[MRC]

Great circuit Waker, I must say I'd love to listen to gear on it.

Changes made last night were:
A) Unplugging everything from the two RGPC 400s.
b) Cleaning up the contacts of one of my PS Audio Juicebars II (how do you clean outlets with plastic sliding protectors on?)
c) Connecting the Juicebar to the wall with the Essential Audio tools Current Conductor cable http://www.essentialaudiotools.com/en/currentconductor.html, and checking for phase.
d) Work out component order in the Juicebar - from current entry onwards: LCD (around 130 W draw); amp (around 400 W on A/B, 1000 w on A); RGPC 400Pro with Sony BRay (15 w draw) on top (loads max 2.880 W onto circuit, easily the toughest customer). Why this order? Past tests, I'll elaborate later.
e) Check for phase on each component.
f) Turn everything on, allow for at least one hour for fist impression.

So, with a one hour build up, how does it compare to:
400 Pro direct to the wall, second 400 Pro plugged to the first, amp and LCD into the first 400, BRay player into the second 400 Pro.

Sound: livelier, faster, more information regarding HF, wider LF soundstage.
Image: brighter, better overall motion, screen actually seems larger, image depth and dimensionality improved.
Cons regarding earlier setup:
Sound: Voices do not seem to have the same texture and weight; bass seems thinner
Image: Not as well defined in terms of line definition and colour noise

Which version wins? Unplugging the heavier draws from the the RGPC 400s delivers a sense of ease and freedom to the signal which really compensates for less overall control, control which came about at the expense of frequency extremes retrieval and expansion. I also feel more at ease to use the class A switch on my XTZ amp for stereo music material on DVD (my Bryan Ferry Best Of delivered well here. Very, very nice.)

[Waker]

 Nice summary--you are dedicated to the process, that's for sure.  So, with your best result, are the amps plugged into the Juicebar to the wall?  You have an amp for each of your systems, the home theater and the two-channel, and it seem they are on the same wall circuit, or right next to each other?  This is getting complicated, as if it weren't already.  Yes, the 400's do lower the noise floor for sound, improve the depth on visual. I run a 1200C to my plasma TV and DVD--amazingly better.  See my PM to you, as well.  Joe

[MRC]

Joe,

The best result - just been away for all these hours at work and now turned on the new set up- is Juicebar II to the wall, LCD on it first, amp next, 400 Pro last, with the Blu Ray player directly into int. Amazing depth and output.

Both amps are in the same wall circuit, but not next to each other - one for the analogue/vinyl system and the other for the DVD setup. They are practically facing each other in the room. Although I'm planning to use both these amps for the two channel - bridged (think about it in class A terms) and getting a bona fide multichannel amp for the DVD. I'll get back with more impressions soon. There's still cable talk, the turntable rig and the Quantum... and even some mains parallel filters.

[MRC]

Charles, can you let me know what you mean by affected? What did you notice on the amp sound?