[John Casler]

Don't make me have to come up there

Come on up! Or are you too much of a wussy?

The "sweat" spot won't be the same without you there.

Sorry, I can't make it.  I have to "sleep in"  

And make that 240 pounds of wussy young man.  Just ask Dawg, I'm back in "HEAVY" training. (Mindblowing in fact)

[James Romeyn]

Jim is in for July 31st, 9AM.  I promise to not eat for two days & to only allow 15 seconds for the audition!      

I am getting (hopefully soon) the latest Bob Carver Sunfire Theater Grand IV A-V preamp processor.  After burn-in I'll do a brief A-B at Brian's.  If worthwhile, time permits, & if desired we can audition it briefly at the end.

[Sa-dono]

Sorry, I can't make it.  I have to "sleep in"  

And make that 240 pounds of wussy young man.  Just ask Dawg, I'm back in "HEAVY" training. (Mindblowing in fact)

Are you going to hit any of the competitions, then? How often do you train, and workout each body part, during your "HEAVY" training, anyway?

[TheChairGuy]

I believe the 31st works..but no guarantees. Any chance for a later time? Some of us like to stay up and sleep in late on the weekends. Plus, if we set things up at the right time, maybe Jim can have something to eat, if he goes.

Okay, so Jim/RibbonSpeaker is in (maybe I'll bring Pop Tarts to keep him glued to his seat   ) and Sa-dono might if we make it later. 'Gentleman' Jgubman, haven't heard an affirmative from you Anybody else?

The reason I chose 9AM, rather than later, was that our last session offically began at 10, but Alex didn't show up until 11AM. We played until 1:30 and were pooped...at which time I had to jet off back home instead of hanging and catching lunch with the guys (which I would have loved to do)  and do the Baby 'switch off' with wife as she has a 3PM yoga class (so Cali we are now   )....

So, I thought 9AM official, folks straggle in and we get started by 9:30 or so.  3 hours of play and we all will be done.  Tho my Sony/MSB is pretty much grain free - we may want to listen longer, however....(says he, throwing down the gauntlet)

That is, assuming my wife's Yoga class still in session them and she is going (which I believe is both correct).

I like to sleep in late too, when possible, but 9 AM works for above reasons.  Can you make it still or do we need to move to 10AM? You must be a single guy without kids, 'cause leaving your house at 8AM IS sleeping to to me, nowadays     Let me know what works - Brian is flexible on this point and I think Jim has a long ride a bit longer ride to Big B's than me from Petaluma.

As for as volume matching, the key factor in evaluating components, I'll let Brian decide how possible that is to do in his place.

[TheChairGuy]

John - The MSB still holds the crown.

Just make sure that everything is well warmed-up before any listening starts - and watch out for differences in the volume levels. Best thing is to use a test disk with a tone with each setup to set the same volume.

In case anyone missed, this is Steve Nugent's admonition for a fair test, so he seems much in agreement with John Casler's main recommendation - level matching.

My front end does need about 15 minutes totally juiced I've found - yet another reason to start at 9, not 10????

[jgubman]

Hi ChairGuy John,

I'm sorry to say that while I'd love to go, it's about 50-50 for me right now. The official due date for my wife is July 28th, so if that goes according to plan I'm not going to risk the ire of a pregnant woman/new mom by ditching the hosiptal to listen to DACs!!!

So, I'd love to go, but it aint lookin likely right now.

[TheChairGuy]

Hi ChairGuy John,

I'm sorry to say that while I'd love to go, it's about 50-50 for me right now. The official due date for my wife is July 28th, so if that goes according to plan I'm not going to risk the ire of a pregnant woman/new mom by ditching the hosiptal to listen to DACs!!!

So, I'd love to go, but it aint lookin likely right now.

Oh boy, I do understand that one Gentleman Johnny.  Been there, done that, recent, too (as you know).

I didn't travel for 3 months straight (a record for the past 12 years I think) waiting for THE day.  Hope to see you there, but don't piss off a pregnant women to do it......not worth it, pal.  

[John Casler]

 
Are you going to hit any of the competitions, then? How often do you train, and workout each body part, during your "HEAVY" training, anyway?

Maybe the Masters Mr A. next year.  Shouldn't be too hard since most of the geezers my age have lost their edge.

Train 3 x a week with weights and 3 x a week running stairs (equivalent to running 200 stories up and down)

Each body part once weekly.

[Ravi]

John, maybe you can fight Mike Tyson on his way out of debt.  Heck even if you lose, you'll still make some quick cash  

[John Casler]

John, maybe you can fight Mike Tyson on his way out of debt.  Heck even if you lose, you'll still make some quick cash  

Hi Ravi,

Except I'm a lover and not a fighter

Actually I've been involved in a few bar clearings in my younger days, but I've mellowed in my senior years

Plus I need my ears!!!!

[ScottMayo]

I will be fresh as the proverbial daisy (what the hell does this term mean anyhow; do we have any botanists out there that can explain that one?)

Daisies disintegrate quickly once they pass bloom, so if you have a daisy, it's either fresh, or largely unrecognizable as a daisy. Other flowers tend to get bedraggled more slowly and more obviously. Also, it was once thought that daisies "slept" at night (they close up in the evening and reopen in the morning), so they were always well-rested and "fresh" all the time, unlike other flowers which stay open all the time.

Daisy is from "day's eye", a name that comes from the flower's ability to close up in the evening and open in the morning, like an eye.

Well, you asked.

[nathanm]

Looks like ScottMayo gave you the answer do.

[TheChairGuy]

Daisies disintegrate quickly once they pass bloom, so if you have a daisy, it's either fresh, or largely unrecognizable as a daisy. Other flowers tend to get bedraggled more slowly and more obviously. Also, it was once thought that daisies "slept" at night (they close up in the evening and reopen in the morning), so they were always well-rested and "fresh" all the time, unlike other flowers which stay open all the time.

Daisy is from "day's eye", a name that comes from the flower's ability to close up in the evening and open in the morning, like an eye.

Well, you asked.

Excellent, ScottMayo, thank you.  I love that kinda' stuff...are you a botanist, or merely a wellspring of odd facts  

Me, I just discovered that fertilizer helps indoor plants grow...I've killed far too many in my life. I have two opposing, BROWN thumbs.    

[ScottMayo]

Excellent, ScottMayo, thank you.  I love that kinda' stuff...are you a botanist, or merely a wellspring of odd facts  

I'm going to treasure this moment; a "wellspring of odd facts" is the nicest thing I've been called this week.

[Bob Wilcox]

I enhanced the picture of Brian's room

[Redbone]

I enhanced the picture of Brian's room

Very nice !  Two things jump right out at me.  

The distance and toe-in between the speakers, I would guess that this is not only the optimal setup for this room, but for RM40s in general.  About 8' separation with ~15 degrees of toe-in.

Apparently we are not overly concerned with speaker cable length.

[ScottMayo]

Very nice !  Two things jump right out at me.  

The distance and toe-in between the speakers, I would guess that this is not only the optimal setup for this room, but for RM40s in general.  About 8' separation with ~15 degrees of toe-in.

Apparently we are not overly concerned with speaker cable length.

A bunch of other things jumped out at me.

1) WAF issues definitely need not apply.

2) This is a working room. When you're experimenting with speaker placement, new components, new wire, etc, you don't bother to optimize speaker cable lengths - and I bet a lot of that goes on there.

3) Brian's budget for acoustical treatments is apparently, um, carefully managed. I bet people at 8th Nerve and other such folk are weeping into their high end foam right now.

Given (2), I wouldn't assume this is an ideal general placement.... and given (1), kids, don't try this at home.

[lonewolfny42]

Thanks !! Nice job with the picture !!!

[zybar]

Quick question...

My setup is somewhat similar to Brian's:



The one thing the system does worse than before (I had the speakers closer together and farther from the front wall) is front to back depth.  The image is relatively flat and a little forward sounding (the forward is coming from the ic's I think).

How was the image depth at Brian's?

Thanks,

George

[John Casler]

George,

Your room is looking great.

Brian's depth is to die for.  The sonic illusion of depth is generally caused by three things:

1) Moving the speakers out from the front wall for less interaction with that wall

2) treating the front wall so that all mids and highs are not reflected

3) being exactly in the sweet spot

Nearfeild listening can also improve depth by improving the "precedence effect" (that is the ear/brain's ability to reject sounds heard at a lower amplitude)

B's front wall is "fully" covered in foam and he also has a couple panels standing out from the wall, that also block sound going into the front wall and sound reflected back out.

The perception of "depth" in a real or live recording is developed by the "subtle" and low level reproduction of actual room or hall interaction recorded into the cut.  These signals are low level and very delicate.

"ANY" additional sounds that come from your own room will seriously degrade these signals and pollute them to the point that the ear/brain will reject them and you have your "flat" and or "forward" sounding sonic signature, since you lose both the original recorded and your room interactive sounds to that rejection.

I doubt if quality ICs can cause this unless they too are acting as filters to the "subtle details" I am talking about.

So, what to do?

Since I assume you don't want to switch your room back, you may have to deal with the reflections you still are getting.

They are coming from your screen, your ceiling, (I thought you had ceiling treatment?) and your front walls and corners.  Some may even be coming from your equipment in the center of your room.  You'll notice B, always says to "not" have your equipment between the speakers.  The reflections are why he says that.

What is the black material around your screen?  is it sound absorbing?  If not then that is the majority of the problem along with the screen.

If your screen is a rollup type then of course roll it up.

If you want to try a "simple fix" just pick up a sheet or two of a very thin plywood or panneling at least 48"w x 60" high x 1/8" (you might even have some around the house.)

Staple or otherwise attach at least three 24" x 48" x 4" foam panels to both the front and the back.  It is OK if the panels "stick out" in fact, it is desirable.

Then use anything to "prop" the acoustic panel up directly in front of the listening area (sweet spot).  Now starting with it 6-7 feet away, inch it closer to you until you have the depth you want.

In making this adjustment, play something that has real depth, and play it rather loud (85db+)

Then mark the position, and store the device in the furnace room when you aren't seriously listening.

If you aren't inclined to build such a project on "speculation", you also might try this (although it won't work quite as well)

Take three of the 24" x 48" x 4" acoustic panels you have, and "stack" them.  Take the first and place it 3-5 feet in front of your sweet spot.

Position it in a slight semicircle (just enough that it will stand lying on its 48" side)  

Then stack the second on top of it and the third likewise, so you have a 6 foot high by four foot wide acoustic foam wall in front of you.  This may take a little balancing but it will work since I have done it successfully with 3" panels.

Your depth "will" return (that is unless your IC's are filtering it out.

Just a suggestion