[Bob in St. Louis]

I used three 'runs' of RG6 to my first two projectors. They can carry an 1080p signal as well as an HDMI cable can. Plus, the RG6 is generally cheaper than a 25' or 30' long HDMI cable. You can also run the unterminated cables through smaller diameter conduit then terminate them after they're run. Mine had the BNC type connectors with RCA adapters.

The only thing an HDMI cable can do that three RG6 can't is carry sound, which you don't need to the PJ anyway.

Bob

EDIT: "WC" has a good point. RG6 isn't' really "future-proof". You'd have to have RGB compatible components.

[Big Red Machine]

Not to promote other sites, but over on AVS there is a very informative thread:

"What I'd do differently next time."
http://www.avsforum.com/t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/570

All the mistakes or do-overs folks have encountered in building home theaters or dedicated rooms.

[mcgsxr]

Big Red, thanks for the link, I have found my Friday night reading!

Bob, it is good to ask questions in public, then EVERYONE can learn how slow I am!   

I am way more an audio guy, the video need comes from my other users (wife and kids!).

I have much to learn about wiring options as it turns out.  Glad I asked early enough in the process to make adjustments. 

I wired my main floor HT about 3 years ago through the walls and floor, and was lucky enough to get it right, so I figured I knew what I was doing...

Thanks for the support, I will have to hang an AC sign at the end, cause I am crowdsourcing the ideas for the build here!

[Bob in St. Louis]

No worries Mark, that's what your peers are here for. 

[randytsuch]

I have an "equipment closet" and put in one 2" and one 3" conduit from the closet to behind my TV.

Couple of things I found out.  The more turns the conduit makes, the harder it makes it to pull wires through it.
You can buy lubricant, I bought it from Home Depot, which will make it easier to pull the wires through the conduit.

BTW, I just ran wires, not conduit to my speakers and never regretted it (so far).

I would wire for 7.1 instead of 5.1 if you can, you might regret that later.

Randy

[mcgsxr]

Fair about 5.1 vs more.

I remain confused about what extra surrounds to run!

Front height?
Rear surrounds (making the 5.1 ones the side surrounds I guess)?
Wide front?

I am inclined to do front height, and rear surrounds, even though I only envision 5.1. 

Another roll of CL2 I guess!

[randytsuch]

I have 3 speakers in front, two on the side walls and two behind (rear).

Yamaha is the only one I know of that has the extra front speakers.

[WC]

I have 3 speakers in front, two on the side walls and two behind (rear).

Yamaha is the only one I know of that has the extra front speakers.

Most of the receivers now have Dolby Pro Logic IIz which uses front heights instead of rear surounds.

[Wayner]

While this thread is a great idea, perhaps there is another way to look at your situation. Rather then trying to guess what you'll need in the future, why not make the installation future proof, by installing accessible conduit from where ever you think the beginning is to the end in your room.

If the conduit is large enough, you would then have the option to pull in new wires (cables, whatever) and remove old cables, wires/technology. I wish that I had done this when I built my new house. I did get the surround speaker wire in, but I would have much rather run conduit. Now, even upgrading is impossible.

See my point?

Wayner

[Bob in St. Louis]

^^^ That's what I said in my first post. 

[Big Red Machine]

Fair about 5.1 vs more.

I remain confused about what extra surrounds to run!

Front height?
Rear surrounds (making the 5.1 ones the side surrounds I guess)?
Wide front?

I am inclined to do front height, and rear surrounds, even though I only envision 5.1. 

Another roll of CL2 I guess!

The AVS threads say that front extra side surrounds are more beneficial than the upper ones in the side to side panning movements.  They say the upper speakers can be distracting.  Just what I read - no experience with either.

[eg1]

Appreciate the feedback folks, the build is complex (being my own GC and hiring trades for the actual construction, managing their schedules and interfacing) and the AV is all on me.

In the US, smurf tube is readily available, but up here in Canada you cannot get any over 1 inch in diameter.  That size won't allow the pull of an HDMI, so I may have to use PVC pipe.

To install 2-3 inch PVC to all 5 speaker locations, PJ, and flat panel display area may prove too much for me, given my timeline to get the project done.

I cannot think of wanting to replace speaker wire to my main locations, why has anyone wanted to do that?

Signal cable to PJ and display I can see, so I will do conduit to those 2 locations for sure.

Researching IR repeaters or RF extenders now, will be looking into another Harmony (I use an 880 on the main floor, so looking at 900 or 1100 for this space).

I don't know what smurf tube is, but I used central vacuum tube for my conduit, eh?

[ctviggen]

I don't know what smurf tube is, but I used central vacuum tube for my conduit, eh?

It's called smurf tube because it's typically orange.   See these pictures.  This one shows conduit from a "central" location to a projector location:



This one shows the central location and two smurf tubes, one to the projector (top) and one (side) to another location opposite the screen (in case someone wants to reverse the room:



This one shows the projector in:

[ctviggen]

You have to make sure the smurf tube is large enough for the cables you want to put in.  Some of the HDMI connectors are big.  I only have one HDMI connector (actually, DVI) to my projector and one cat 5e cable for IR. I can't see needing more than that for a projector.  I did not run other cables in smurf tube, as I would have to reduce my wall to rubble to do that. 

[Speedskater]

If you do run RG-6 (not RG-6 Quad Shield) to the projector,  make sure that they all come off the same reel and are all the same length.

HDMI can be a pain, wither you use it or not! ( as so new equipment makes it the HDMI way or the highway)

[ctviggen]

Another problem with putting tubing everywhere is that meeting codes might be problematic.  The tubing I put in was just under the limit for holes for 2x6 joists.  For 2x4 studs that are load bearing, it's too big (meaning that you'd have to double up on some studs).  My main walls weren't load bearing, but if I would've run tubing to every speaker location, the walls would've been load bearing.  Plus, the connections for that many tubes get a little out of control.  You'd have to have a nice location for the home run system.

[bpape]

There are a couple of other options.

1.  Build an interior wall isolated from the load bearing ones - that also helps with isolation.

2.  Run multiple Cat 5/6 runs and use Baluns to convert to the format you're looking for.

3.  Do all your runs in conduit in soffits around the perimeter of the room and drop them down through the top plate of the wall - this way you don't compromise the vertical load bearing studs.

Bryan

[mcgsxr]

Great suggestions all so far, thanks again.

Smurf tube in Canada cannot be found in greater than 1 inch diameter, so that is a real issue for me.  I would have to drive to Buffalo and pick some up.

I am lucky in that I am not cutting any joists or studs to get wires where I need.  My media closet is next to my bulkhead, as is my display, so most of the runs are straight down the bulkhead, then parallel to joists, then drop through the top plate.

bpape, I did what I could - I left my display wall 2 inches proud of the foundation, so once the 2 inches of spray foam goes in behind the wall, I will still have full wall depth to play with for on wall or in wall speakers.

I will run a load of Cat6e, that stuff is affordable and readily available.   RG6 can be had but not sure if off the same spool, I will see if I can specify that.

HDMI my preference, even though it is expensive for the 50 foot run, I will run 1 and run all the other gear to the Pioneer receiver.

I am exploring an HDMI splitter, so I can display content on 2 displays, there may be an additional TV down there, and I want it dead simple for my wife to use if she wants.

I am aiming for a Harmony 900, to leverage the RF capabilities and bury as much gear as possible in the media closet.  I may have a shelf near the main display for Wii and other gaming needs (all my kids, I could care less).

[randytsuch]

Another pulling cable through tube lesson I learned.

Just because the cable fits in the tube doesn't mean you can pull it though, corners are the issue again.

For cables with long connectors, and HDMI usually fits into this category, it can be difficult to pull them around a corner if the tube is too small.
1" sounds small for pulling HDMI around corners, not sure that it will work.  I would try it before the walls go in.

And can you run HDMI for 50'?  There is a limit, and I forget what it is.

I hope I am not sounding negative, I don't mean to, just trying to help you account for everything.

In another project, I had a contractor install conduit from my garage to where the cable tv enters my property.  The cable was old, and the cable company had already told me that the signal was weak and it would need replacing.  The next time I had cable problems, I pulled a new coax cable through the conduit.

The point is that it was a long run, maybe 100 feet, and I think it had 5 90 deg turns, and I couldn't pull the cable through.  I  ended up cutting into the conduit where it was exposed, about 1/2 through the run.  I was able to pull the cable to the cut OK, and then from the cut to the end of the run.

On an unrelated note related to remotes.  I used a Harmony 890 for a long time, maybe 4 years, but the buttons stopped working right.  I bought a Monster AVL300, and started using it.  It works will so far, haven't had it too long though.  If you are patient, they come up on ebay pretty cheap sometimes, for hardly used ones.  When Monster discoutinued them, they sold them off cheap, which maybe drove down their resale value.

There is some tricks to the AVL300 remotes, they can get into a mode where it looks like it's broken, but there is a pretty easy way to fix it.

I like the avl300 because it can do RF, zwave and IR.  You can install zwave light switches and appliance plugs, so the remote can also control lighting, and turn on and off things which have real on/off switches.

Randy

[mcgsxr]

No negativity perceived.

I have used an 880 Harmony for 3 years now, and my brother used it for at least that number before, so I have had good experiences with Harmony remotes.  Appreciate the user experience with your other option though, I am well away from spending the $ on the remote yet.

I have read that HDMI max is around 50 feet.  I will buy one locally and test it this week (ie using my upstairs TV and receiver, so it can just be on the floor, not installed first!).

Conduit has its problems.  Although my run is MOSTLY straight down the bulkhead, I am sure there are 4 90's to get up and over and around to where it needs to be. 

I will hard wire my stuff and run conduit.  The conduit will be empty to allow for the future.  It is the best I can do.

I am aiming to use 1.25-1.5 conduit, but the expense is adding up.

Code is another worry.  All my cabling is legit.  I would think in wall vacuum tube would be in wall rated, so I might use that.  If I have to go up to 2 inch ID, it will have to be PVC plumbing tubing, which again must meet code cause it is in my walls!