[medium jim]

I am going to post verbatim from the FAQ section from the Magnepan website their answer to this question:

"How much power do I need? [top]

We are asked this question every single day. We wish that we could be of more help, but individual tastes vary. If someone tells you that you need an amplifier with ___ watts, how can they be so sure if they are not listening with you in your room?

You can get a lot of free advice in the chat rooms on the internet. Most of it is of very little value (or misleading). Often, their power recommendations are influenced by their listening habits and room conditions. If they have a strong opinion of what you need for power, take it with a grain of salt. (emphasis added)

Personal tastes are "all over the map". We hear of customers that are perfectly happy with 50 watts and others using 1000 watts. Without the option of listening with you, we have no way to give meaningful advice. The most reliable way to answer this question for your particular needs is by visiting a dealer or arranging to hear a pair of Magneplanars. If you listen to your music at your normal volume, in a room that is approximately the same size as your room, with an amplifier similar to what you plan to use, an accurate power requirement can be determined for your listening habits. This is a lot to ask, but it is the only reliable method of determining the power needs for a specific individual."

I think they have a good handle on it and their advice is more than sage.   I'm not saying to stop sharing advice and reporting on what turns your maggies into bliss making things, but rather to be more temperate and understanding to others who may have a different opinion or concept that you.  What I read from the above is that you don't necessarily need mega watts to make them sing their best song. 

I am more than guilty with debating or beating a dead horse at times and apologize and ask that we all learn to be friends, after all, we do have good taste in speakers!

Jim

[roscoeiii]

I am certainly an "audition uber alles"  guy. And yes, listening preferences and room size will play a role, but I sure would've liked a bit more guidance from Magnepan than this.

For example, what works well at what volumes, with what kind of music, in what room sizes?

And what kind of 50W amps would work well with Maggies? Are we talking tube or SS watts?

I suppose Maggie dealers could provide that info, but I'd rather hear it from the more expert manufacturer.

[medium jim]

I am certainly an "audition uber alles"  guy. And yes, listening preferences and room size will play a role, but I sure would've liked a bit more guidance from Magnepan than this.

For example, what works well at what volumes, with what kind of music, in what room sizes?

And what kind of 50W amps would work well with Maggies? Are we talking tube or SS watts?

I suppose Maggie dealers could provide that info, but I'd rather hear it from the more expert manufacturer.

I think they are taking the neutral approach and rightfully so in my opinion.  I have a 16x15' room and am having lots of fun driving a pair of 2.5's which are about 6' tall and 2' wide with a pair of Marantz Model 9's that are conservatively rated at 70watts...closer to 90 in the real world.  I have hooked them up to several different SS amps, Bryston 4B sst2, Parasound HCA1500 and a BGW500D....all are over 300watts in 4ohm and I always go back to the Marantz's. 

All three of the SS amps are worthy amps and will allow for more db's, but the SQ of the tube Marantz's is the winner for me and does get as loud as I will ever need at the listening position which is about 8.5' away...I'm talking upper 90's and without any compression or sibilance and peaks of well over 100db. 

Jim

[Davey]

You can't really have a consensus on this topic.

Much depends upon the output impedance of the amplifier used with the Maggies.  The higher the output impedance, the more variation in response associated with crossover impedance peak(s) will be felt in the acoustic response.  Tube amplifiers will inherently sound different with Maggies because of this interaction.

Most SS (lower output impedance) amps should sound more similar than different with Maggies.....assuming they have sufficient power to supply current to maintain waveform reproduction.

Cheers,

Dave.

[roscoeiii]

You can't really have a consensus on this topic.

Much depends upon the output impedance of the amplifier used with the Maggies.  The higher the output impedance, the more variation in response associated with crossover impedance peak(s) will be felt in the acoustic response.  Tube amplifiers will inherently sound different with Maggies because of this interaction.

Most SS (lower output impedance) amps should sound more similar than different with Maggies.....assuming they have sufficient power to supply current to maintain waveform reproduction.

Cheers,

Dave.

This sort of info about the importance of amp impedance is just the sort of thing that I would've liked to see instead of what Jim quoted from Magnepan. Very helpful to know that output impedance is a key factor with Maggies.

[medium jim]

This sort of info about the importance of amp impedance is just the sort of thing that I would've liked to see instead of what Jim quoted from Magnepan. Very helpful to know that output impedance is a key factor with Maggies.

There are several factors in determining the right amp and amp output impedance is one.  The nexus of my post was to indicate that wattage is not the sole determinate as many tend to think which leads to too much misinformation.

It would be impractical for Magnepan to properly address the question other than the way they did.

Jim

[roscoeiii]

There are several factors in determining the right amp and amp output impedance is one.  The nexus of my post was to indicate that wattage is not the sole determinate as many tend to think which leads to too much misinformation.

It would be impractical for Magnepan to properly address the question other than the way they did.

Jim

OK, my last comment on this. But I don't think it would be impractical of Magnepan to give some parameters like impedance that should be taken into mind when choosing an amp for Maggies. Instead they punted. And as a result you potentially end up with consumers potentially wasting their time and money on amps that are clearly not going to be ideal for Maggies.

There is no substitute for an audition, but where forums, reviewers and manufacturers' websites can be of great service is helping a potential buyer narrow down the list of potentially suitable options.

OK, don't want to be doing this: 

I've said my piece.

[Davey]

I think Magnepan's statement regarding power amplifiers is excellent.  I hate to say it, but more information would probably confuse the average buyer rather than inform them. 

Power is more about listening room size, preferred SPL levels, and bass requirements.  If one (or more) of those is significant then maybe a higher-powered amp is required.
Other factors though translate directly to the character of reproduction regardless of the power-related factors.  ie, if you have an amplifier with significant output impedance...say one ohm...it's going to boost the SPL levels concurrent with the peaks in the impedance plot regardless of how powerful the amp is....or how big your room is...or etc.

Most of these sorts of variations in response are easily measurable too.

Cheers,

Dave.

[Elizabeth]

Well the most regularly recommended amp said to be great with Magnepans is Bryston.
I took that advice when I went to audition some new Maggies and amp three years ago.
Liked what i heard and am totally happy with the Bryston 4B-SST2 anp i use to power my Maggies.

[66mgb]

You can't go wrong with a Pass Labs amp. Built like a tank and sound good with Maggies.

[Hasse]

You can't go wrong with a Pass Labs amp. Built like a tank and sound good with Maggies.

I am dreaming of the XA100.5 monos for my 3.7´s 

[oracle309]

From what I remember from a few friends that had them, anything capable of some current. Minimum were the Adcom amplifiers. Bryston, big HK integrated amps (like the PM665) and such.

[josh358]

OK, my last comment on this. But I don't think it would be impractical of Magnepan to give some parameters like impedance that should be taken into mind when choosing an amp for Maggies. Instead they punted. And as a result you potentially end up with consumers potentially wasting their time and money on amps that are clearly not going to be ideal for Maggies.

There is no substitute for an audition, but where forums, reviewers and manufacturers' websites can be of great service is helping a potential buyer narrow down the list of potentially suitable options.

OK, don't want to be doing this: 

I've said my piece.

Actually, they say what they should about impedance -- find an amp that doubles down into 4 ohms.

High output impedance amps can alter the frequency response of any speaker, not just Maggies. So that isn't properly information that belongs on their site.

[josh358]

While I agree 100% that this is a matter of listening habits, I'd add one thing to what Magnepan said: Power is one thing that can be done pretty well by the book. I can see why they wouldn't want to go into this on their web site, because so many audiophiles seem to be allergic to measurement, but as I see it God equipped us with SPL meters and it's a simple matter to play some music as loud as you ever do and measure it. After that, sizing an amp is a straightforward mechanical exercise. There are HTML amp sizing tables that make it doubly easy. Just make sure of two things: use a table that is for line source dipoles, and if you're using a Radio Shack meter to measure the peaks at 10 dB to the reading. Also, as a rule of thumb, you can get by with a tube amp of about half the size as a solid state amp.

[SteveFord]

Along with power requirements there is SQ (sound quality).
That is where personal preference comes into play.
I don't believe that people hear things the same way which is why there are so many different manufacturers.
What I like you may not and vice versa.  Neither party is wrong, it's personal preference.

[medium jim]

Along with power requirements there is SQ (sound quality).
That is where personal preference comes into play.
I don't believe that people hear things the same way which is why there are so many different manufacturers.
What I like you may not and vice versa.  Neither party is wrong, it's personal preference.

Precisely...

I sort of put the cart before the horse.  Here's what Magnepan says about what is the best amp...sorry, there isn't a link to save bandwidth:

"What is the best amplifier for Magneplanars? [top]

Some individuals assume we won't make product or amplifier recommendations for "political" reasons. Not true. We CAN'T make specific recommendations because WE DON'T KNOW. It is too much work to keep up with changing models and the vast number of products. As it is, our small staff is not getting all of our work done. However, the following guidelines will be helpful. Class A/B amplifier designs that come close to doubling power at 4 ohms have a long and successful track record.

There are 2 features or aspects of a receiver or amplifier that will enhance your music or experience-- High current power supplies (ability to drive 4 ohm loads) and adjustable crossover points in the bass management menu for home-theater.

The most common question is about the amount of recommended power for Magneplanars, but, first, it is important to understand the role of current and the power supply. High current and the capability of the power supply is a good indicator of the QUALITY of the amplifier. The amount of power you will need is a matter of QUANTITY. High current and total power are two separate issues.

The power supply is "what separates the men from the boys." A receiver is very efficient and cost-effective way to get is all in one package, but there are "issues". Unfortunately, consumers want all the "bells and whistles" without understanding the importance of power supply. Many manufacturers offer the "bells and whistles", but, compromise the power supply to be price competitive. There are a few manufacturers that are the exception.

Everyone understands they need plenty of power, but the role of power supply is not understood. There is one important concept you need to understand when shopping for an amplifier or receiver---and it is somewhat like understanding "good" and "bad" cholesterol. The ratio is very important. An Gold Standard for an amplifier would be to double the power at 4 ohms. This concept is important even if you are buying an 8 ohm speaker. If the amplifier is rated at 80 watts at 8 ohms, it should (ideally) produce 160 watts at 4 ohms (or close to it). None of the receivers will do that. However, this is the benchmark of a good amplifier design. A 10 watt amplifier that produces 20 watts at 4 ohms "speaks volumes" about the PHILOSOPHY of the designer. (But, of course, it does not tell you if a 10 watt amplifier is enough for your room.)

A good receiver might produce 30-40% more power at 4 ohms. Most receiver manufacturers don't want to talk about 4 ohm ratings because they have cut the "guts" out of their products to keep the cost down. Some receivers produce the same power at 4 ohms as the 8 ohm ratings. Or they use a switch on the back for 4 ohms to reduce the power and to prevent the receiver from self destructing. Others warn against 4 ohm speakers. Regardless of what speaker you buy, we don't recommend any of these receivers. There are a few manufacturers making receivers with good 4 ohm capability. But, we can't keep up with who's doing what. All you have to remember is to ask-- "What is the 4 ohm power rating?" If the 4 ohm rating isn't available, find another model or brand. It may take some digging to find the 4 ohm rating, but there are a number of receivers on the market that are rated for 4 ohms. For example, the THX rating requires that the amplifier section must be able to drive 4 ohms continuously. Even an inexpensive receiver like the 50 watt NAD C725 BEE (suggested retail of $799) is advertised to be stable with impedances down to 1 ohm and has peak power of 200 watts. So, don't be fooled by pretty front panels. Its what is on the inside that counts.

A new type of amplifier (Class D) has become more popular because it is a "green" design and uses less power plus it is smaller in size compared to conventional amplifier designs. We have heard reports of Class D amplifiers shutting down when driving 4 ohm loads or sound quality that is less-than-desirable. Some, more recent designs are much better. Because we do not have the time to determine which models of Class D designs are compatible with Maggies, we must take a conservative approach. Class A/B designs with high current capability have proven a good choice for many decades.

Adjustable crossover points- If you are shopping for a receiver or processor, you will want a model with adjustable crossover points for "small" speakers in the bass management menu. This is very important to the design of a Magneplanar home-theater system. Adjustable crossover points up to 250 Hz are desirable.

Most ribbon or electrostatic center channel speakers incorporate a dynamic midbass driver since the rather small ribbon or electrostatic elements can not produce midbass. This seems like a mistake to us. The does approximately 60% of the "heavy lifting" for movies. Why compromise such a critical ribbon speaker with a dynamic woofer?

Magneplanar center channel speakers are also small (relative to our full range models) and cannot produce adequate midbass-- by themselves. Our strategy is to utilize the front left/right Magneplanars (or one of the new Magneplanar Woofers) to produce the center channel midbass/bass. When optimally setup, the illusion is of a big Maggie in the middle. However, it requires one of several solutions for getting center channel midbass/bass. Adjustable crossover points in the bass management menu is one of the easiest solutions. If your receiver or processor only has an 80 Hz crossover point for "small" center channel, there are other options. Please call us and we will be happy to discuss your installation requirements."

Jim

[josh358]

Along with power requirements there is SQ (sound quality).
That is where personal preference comes into play.
I don't believe that people hear things the same way which is why there are so many different manufacturers.
What I like you may not and vice versa.  Neither party is wrong, it's personal preference.

Yes, it's the power that can be determined mechanically. Sound quality is something that has to be listened for and needless to say is extremely controversial, though I don't think anyone claims that all amplifiers sound the same -- there's just debate over what characteristics can make amplifiers sound different, and whether some prefer euphonic distortions (or distortions that happen to complement flaws in the speaker or room) to accuracy.

[SteveFord]

I listen to both types but gimme there's no beating the euphonic distortion.
To my ears it just sounds more like the real thing.
The dog has been jumping on and off of the recliner (she doesn't like really loud music - the wife is gone tonight) and the noise of the chair banging into the wall made me think a tube was going bad!
It did get me to quit being so lazy and check the bias.

[roscoeiii]

 

I respectfully withdraw my earlier comments, I should have looked at Magnepan's page instead of thinking that Jim posted all Magnepan had to say about amps. What he just posted is in fact an excellent example of the type of quality guidance one would hope for from a manufacturer.

[medium jim]

I respectfully withdraw my earlier comments, I should have looked at Magnepan's page instead of thinking that Jim posted all Magnepan had to say about amps. What he just posted is in fact an excellent example of the type of quality guidance one would hope for from a manufacturer.

Roscoe:

My apologies for putting the cart before the horse.  I have never dealt with a company before that was a straight forward as Magnepan is...heck, call them up and it is very likely that Wendell or Jim will be the person who answers the phone!  Then there is the fact that they still service each and every model they have ever made, very impressive.

Jim