[roscoeiii]

Hi folks,

A comment on another thread here got me thinking about turntable belts. So I thought I'd start a thread on belts.

I can see how you might want to replace a belt if it gets stretched out and your motor is a fixed distance from the spindle and it is slipping or slowing down the RPMs. In my case, I have both a controller that allows me to adjust RPMs and an external motor that allows me to adjust the tension distance from motor to spindle. So some of my questions:

1) What sort of general belt maintenance (if any) is recommended?
2) At what point is it a good idea to replace a belt?
3) What is the ideal tension for a belt if it adjustable in your set-up?
4) What about belt upgrades vs. stock belts? For example Origin Live sells belt upgrades. Any experience or recommendations?
5) Any belt tweaks you'd recommend?

And here is the comment from another thread that got me thinking about all of this:

"As the VPI Classic wasn't used for the past ~ year or so, when I first set it up it sounded dreadful. I was sooooo very disappointed. I had been using direct drive TT (or alternatively listening to digital) and pitch of instruments had been perfect - and it was sounding dreadful on the VPI. So, I boiled my belt for 30 seconds in hot water and removed the waning thin film of grease on the main bearing shaft (replaced with Lubro-Moly) and took another spin.

SHA-ZAM....utter bliss....unwaveringly nice pitch for piano and violin (where it's most noticed). It's those little niggling things that makes vinyl such a pain...but, when you dial it in, it makes it so sweet "

[vinyl_guy]

I have an SME 20/2 and the distance from the motor to the spindle is fixed. SME recommends periodically cleaning the belt with a contact cleaner or lighter fluid and replacing it after 1000 hours of use. I clean the belt about once every three months or so depending on use. I have the ability to adjust rpms at the motor controller. I also use Dr. Feickert's Adjust + 7" test record and his Platter Speed app for iPhone, iPad and Android to set the speed. Works great. I have replaced the belt once and it seemed to reduce minor fluctions in platter speed as measured with the platter speed app.

Laura

[roscoeiii]

So cleaning the belt would just involve giving it a good scrub with contact cleaner or lighter fluid?

For those of use who can adjust the tension of our belts, I am assuming that greater belt tension would lead to fewer platter speed fluctuations? Or is my thinking screwy on this somehow?

[lazydays]

I have not used a belt in years on my two turn tables. The Final Tool came with cotten thread, and I liked that much better than a rubber belt. Then I get another table that came with monofilment fishing line and was pretty much junk from the start. I switched it over to thread, and the sound was much better quality. Later on I started playing around with different kinds of thread, and noticed a difference in sound signature. I liked pure silk, but the bass was reduced noticably. I then found a dacron (maybe rayon)/silk thread that did it all very well. The synthetics do not stretch (cotten dosn't as well) like O rings do. Besides a spool of thread cost about $2.50 veses $30+ for a rubber belt that will strect within a week of steady use. A spool of thread should last you at least one lifetime, and a threaded drive is usually good for well over a year.
gary

[rollo]

  Interesting about using thread rather than rubber belt. I'll give it a try on the Kuzma Stobi S. I'm concerned about slipping using the thread approach as opposed to the rubber belt. Uses a stand alone motor so it can be tight but not sure. Any comments appreciated. Sounds like a good experiment.


charles

[vinyl_guy]

I don't see how a thread would work with a TT with a fixed distance between motor and spindle unless the TT was designed to be used with a thread. How do you get the right tension--by significant trial and error? I have had no problems keeping my platter speed accurate with the belt supplied by SME. When SME can command the money it costs for one of their TT and receive the consistent outstanding reviews across the globe, I am going to assume that the belt they supply is the right way to go.

Laura

[roscoeiii]

And for those of us who can adjust our motor distance, I am still not clear on how taught we want the belt to be....

[Quiet Earth]

How do you tie a knot in the thread without having the knot become a bump in the belt?

[deauguie]

On my VPI Scout, it has a stand alone motor.  My belt is a couple of years old, and I check it's accuracy every few months with Dr Feikerts app and Analogue Productions test record. The ability to move the motor to obtain accurate speed has been very good in my opinion.  I found with the app that the top groove on the pulley and slight adjustment of the motor produces accuracy in the +/- 0.2 range...always green on the app scale.

Having said that, I have been curious about maintenance of the belt, and never thought about cleaning it with lighter fluid, etc.  Anyone else here used different fluids?

Dan   

[ptmconsulting]

I've been using silk thread for years now. I would never go back to the VPI rubber O ring. However, depending on your motor capstan, you may need a speed controller.

Cotton thread stretches, so don't use that. Polyester thread doesn;t stretch, and will give you a brighter sound (thread affecting tonality? Yeah, somehow it does.) Silk thread also doesn't stretch and has a more organic souond. Try different guages for different results.

Here's a link to a cheap online source:

http://www.artbeads.com/stringing-materials-griffin-silk-bead-cord.html

[bside123]

How do you tie a knot in the thread without having the knot become a bump in the belt?

I'm curious about this as well. 

[rollo]

  The Kuzma has a stand alone motor. I use a digital tachometer [ thanks PM consulting for the recco ] to adjust speed. Very accurate and easy as pie.  With belts costing what they do a string alternative just may be the ticket. Pearl knots can be made by buying the knotter.


charles

[BobM]

Just put both ends together and make a simple overhand knot. It is the smallest knot you can make. As the string turns about the platter and motor spindle it will automatically adjust to the knot side out.

Picture this with both ends together and you've got it.

[lazydays]

  Interesting about using thread rather than rubber belt. I'll give it a try on the Kuzma Stobi S. I'm concerned about slipping using the thread approach as opposed to the rubber belt. Uses a stand alone motor so it can be tight but not sure. Any comments appreciated. Sounds like a good experiment.


charles

what you want to look for is a material that will not stretch. The polyester blends are good, and like the sound from Rayon and Dacron as well. Silk worked well, but lacked some bass extension for me. On the otherhand I felt the upper end of the scale was a little more open and transparent. The thread dosn't seem to transfer as much feed back from the moror as the other does. The thread is so cheap that you can afford to experiment. And while on the feedback subject, try to make a vibration isolator pad for the motor. This really opened up the high end with a Grado or D103 (specially the Denon). Rubber drive belts go bad from sunlight alone, and will stretch to no end.
gary

[lazydays]

I don't see how a thread would work with a TT with a fixed distance between motor and spindle unless the TT was designed to be used with a thread. How do you get the right tension--by significant trial and error? I have had no problems keeping my platter speed accurate with the belt supplied by SME. When SME can command the money it costs for one of their TT and receive the consistent outstanding reviews across the globe, I am going to assume that the belt they supply is the right way to go.

Laura

had little to do with platter speed as it did in reducing feed back. I just noticed a significant difference between threads and even a rubber belt on a third table I own. I suspect there is a way to adjust belt tension on the SME table as you would otherwise be changing belts all the time. I'll never buy another rubber belt again!
gary

[lazydays]

How do you tie a knot in the thread without having the knot become a bump in the belt?

that's easy. Acoustic Signature said to simply tie knot with it angleing towards the outside of the pulleys. I checked the string drive with a very sophisticated vibration analyisis piece of equipment and could barely pick the knot up when it went thru the smaller pulley (very low order). I also checked it out with a specialized tacometer that was made for very low speed readings, and the table was rock steady and it showed the final tool to be running about as close as the tach could read (about 1/10th of a percent slow). My other table I use is an Opera, and it has a slightly different pulley setup, and will show a little more feed back due to their choice of material. But the speed is very good and there is no noticable bump from the knots. The real trick here is to use the smallest diameter thread you can get by with
gary

[lazydays]

I've been using silk thread for years now. I would never go back to the VPI rubber O ring. However, depending on your motor capstan, you may need a speed controller.

Cotton thread stretches, so don't use that. Polyester thread doesn;t stretch, and will give you a brighter sound (thread affecting tonality? Yeah, somehow it does.) Silk thread also doesn't stretch and has a more organic souond. Try different guages for different results.

Here's a link to a cheap online source:

http://www.artbeads.com/stringing-materials-griffin-silk-bead-cord.html

I started out with cotten thread, and your right in that it stretches slightly, but after about an hour of use it seems to quit stretching. I found a silk polyester blend thread that really sounded great on my tables, but your right for the best high end you can't get much better than pure silk. The thread on my Opera table has been on there for at least two years if not longer. I have an even better thread to try, but can't get a good knot out of it yet. If I do figure one out I'll chime in on it
gary

[SET Man]

Hey!

    Thanks, this post reminded me that it had been a while since I last cleaned my turntable belt 

    I use rubber pinch roller cleaner. Yes, the pinch rollers in the tape deck. I just put some on paper towel and lightly pull the belt through. Works fine for me

    I still have some left that I use on my tape decks. But it is hard to find locally now here in NYC. There are still available online but it seems to cost more now a day. 

Take care,
Buddy

[orientalexpress]

I use VCR tape and 1/4 reel to reel tape for my Teres turntable belts so far so good  :thumb:i haven't try silk yet That next.Thanks again 


lapsan

[rollo]

what you want to look for is a material that will not stretch. The polyester blends are good, and like the sound from Rayon and Dacron as well. Silk worked well, but lacked some bass extension for me. On the other hand I felt the upper end of the scale was a little more open and transparent. The thread dosn't seem to transfer as much feed back from the motor as the other does. The thread is so cheap that you can afford to experiment. And while on the feedback subject, try to make a vibration isolator pad for the motor. This really opened up the high end with a Grado or D103 (specially the Denon). Rubber drive belts go bad from sunlight alone, and will stretch to no end.
gary

   Thanks Gary. Has anyone tried fishing line ? The motor has Mapleshade brass cones under. So far so good.


charles