Questio regarding WTA system from a new user

ace.mcloud · « **on:** 27 Jan 2013, 02:20 pm »

Guys,

I have been going back and forth over my system setup for my new WTA. My dealer was kind enough to demo a few different ones and after about 30 hours of listening I finally settled on the below setup:

1. Well tempered Amadeus
2. EMT TSD 15 cartridge
3. LM 216IA amplifier
4. Dynavector P75III phono
5. Dynaaudio speakers

I am really excited about getting this system setup however I remain concerned regarding my phono stage. Is the P75 a good component for this system or are there other phono stages I should be looking at?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 05:37 am »

That is a great looking set-up. But if I were to change one thing, it would be the phono stage. Not that the P75 will serve you badly, but that is where I'd say you would have the most room for improvement.

I have not heard it, but you might want to look into the new Avid phono stage at around the price of the P75. I thought the change to an Avid Pulsus from my P75 was a very nice step up, and I find myself preaching the Avid phono stage a lot (I easily preferred it over a SimAudio 5.3LP with optional external power supply). Have not heard the newer one chassis model, but I would definitely look into it at that price range. Music Direct sells them if you don't have the option to listen locally and they have an excellent return policy.

vortrex · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 06:00 am »

I would imagine you're really going to be constricting your system with that phono stage. Why that phono stage with such incredible other bits?

SteevA · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 07:07 am »

As I related in a recent thread on this forum, you can do a lot better than the P75. You should try a few as they are one component that is easy to move in and out of you system.

Steve

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 02:54 pm »

I actually have that exact same set up, except I have DeVore Fidelity 3XL speakers instead of the Dynaudios. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the new P75 mk. 3. Are there better phonostages out there? Absolutely. But for the price it is a very fine piece of gear. It has many more adjustable options that the previous mk. 2 and the sound is more refined. I upgraded from a Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena, and the P75 beats it in every way. It's good to leave some room for improvement down the line. You don't have to go all in at once. That Dynavector amp is great and not just for the money. I doubt you would be disappointed.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 03:26 pm »

Yes, I agree that you will not likely be disappointed by the P75, especially in PE mode.

But if you get the upgrade itch, that is what I would look at first.

With all audio gear, my recommendation is to try to find a way to listen and compare in your own space.

vortrex · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 03:52 pm »

from my experience the order or importance is table/arm -> phono pre -> cart. I was using a very inexpensive cart (103R) with my WTA and Chinook, a fairly well regarded phono pre. I then upgraded to the next level phono pre (Zesto) and the improvement was significant. that tells me even with the Chinook, who many call the best phono pre in the ~$2k range, I was still not getting everything I could out of my cart. with your EMT I imagine you will be leaving a LOT of its performance untapped. will it sound fine? sure, but if you were to put a phono pre in that's in the same league as your other gear I think it would be a really eye opening change.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 04:02 pm »

But the question in my mind is whether the OP is willing/able to spend more on a phono pre at this point.

vortrex · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 04:20 pm »

possibly not, which means I would lessen the cart and better the phono pre.

SteevA · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jan 2013, 09:04 pm »

I thought the Mk3 P75 was better than the Mk1. A friend who also has the Mk1 and tested the MK3, with his souped up LP12 + Lyra Kleos rig, thought the Mk3 sounded mechanical and preferred the Mk1 - but he is still looking to upgrade, I believe to a Trilogy 907 later in the year.

There is no escaping the benefit of auditioning when you can organise it as, despite what others may think, personal preference is the final arbiter.

Steve

ace.mcloud · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jan 2013, 12:11 am »

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I have reached out to the dealer and we have agreed to demo a couple of additional phono stages along with the P75 over the next couple of days. I do have budget concerns as well as I am already about 10% over my initial estimate which isn't that bad but even so.

Will report back on the demo and once again thank you for all the suggestions.

Ace

SteevA · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jan 2013, 03:53 am »

Be very careful. I ended up spending aver 5x what I had spent on my then current phono stage when I wasnt even looking for a new phono stage. I actually dropped in to the shop to talk about my then leaking LTD tonearm.

Steve

williamsims · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 01:01 am »

Haha! It IS easy to get seduced by gear outside your means. Just be grateful that you have such a flexible dealer. Sounds like he actually wants a long-term relationship and wants you to be happy. Not always the case, believe me.

Sounds like you're off to a great start -- good listening! -- Bill

ace.mcloud · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 03:56 pm »

Well I finally finished the demo with a few additional phono stages including the Avid phono stage and have decided to stick with the P75 for now. I liked the sound in the existing system and it allows me to stay more or less within the budget. Again, thank you for all the feedback and suggestions.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 04:06 pm »

Thanks for the update. And now you also have a nice idea what a future upgrade may provide. How did the Avid (or other phono pres) compare to the new P75mkIII? There aren't a lot of impressions out there yet.

ace.mcloud · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 04:27 pm »

I had a hard time deciding between the Pulsus and the P75, both sounded good. However the Pulsare blow everything else out of the water. I was genuinely surprised at how the sound just picked up on that one. It's going on my list for sure !

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 08:57 pm »

Congrats on your purchase. Do let us know once everything arrives. Also, I've set the P75 to PE mode for high impedance cartridges. It sounds pretty sweet that way.

mgsboedmisodpc2 · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Feb 2013, 08:05 pm »

Vortrex did I read correctly that you recommend a phono RIAA PRE stage to phono cartridge price ratio of 10 to 1 and recently upgraded to a phono RIAA PRE stage to phono cartridge price ratio of 20 to 1? Please tell me more about your Denon DL 103R. I am looking to extract more out of mine by upgrading from my Graham Slee Reflex M and Denon AU-300LC 1:10 ratio SUT to something else. The 103r I am using was purchased from the comet supply store and is not a graded cart i.e.: "tolerance between L&R output voltage and internal coil impedance" being less than or equal to 1 percent. Vortrex do you have a graded 103R? And are you currenlty using an upgraded cantilever and stylus and body with your 103 R? I am just curious because it just seems unlikely for one to pair such an inexpensive cartridge with such an expensive phono RIAA PRE stage unless your 103r is graded 2 prime(a ZU ranking) with upgraded wood or aluminum body with ruby cantilever and with a Contact Line stylus which would change the phono RIAA PRE stage to phono cartridge price ratio to 2 to 1 and 4 to 1.

ZU Rankings
"tolerance is referenced between the two channels' internal resistance and output Voltage"
Denon DL 103R Standard ≤ 4.0%
Denon DL 103R Grade 1 ≤ 1.0%
Denon DL 103R Grade 2 ≤ 0.5%
Denon DL 103R Grade 2 Prime (2') ≤ 0.1%
ZU
Denon DL 103 Grade 2 PRIME $874 0.1% inter-channel tolerances
Denon DL 103 2 $749 0.5% inter-channel tolerances
Denon DL 103 1 $624 1.0% inter-channel tolerances
Denon DL 103 (standard grade) $549 2.0% inter-channel tolerances

Soundsmith
Denon DL 103R-Ruby CL $829.95
Denon DL 103R-Ruby CL NUDE $999.95
Denon DL 103R-Ruby OC/CL $929.95
Denon DL 103R-Ruby OC/CL NUDE $1099.95

phono RIAA PRE stage
Zesto Audio Andros PS1 Vacuum Tube Phonostage Preamp $4,300
Manley Chinook Phono Stage $2,250

vortrex · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Feb 2013, 08:34 pm »

comet supply also. yes, I use a cheapo cart. I'll get something better at some point. however, switching from a Chinook to a Zesto was a significant upgrade where I was able to get even more performance out of the 103R. so, in my experience, I would guess that most people do not get the most out of the 103R because they're usually pairing it with much less then stellar phono stages. I rate the order of importance like this: table/arm -> phono pre -> cart -> phono cable. I think people who heard my system would be shocked to know it's a $238 cart.

mgsboedmisodpc2 · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Feb 2013, 08:39 pm »

Vortrex you wrote you used to use a 103r what cart are you using today?