[brooklyn]

Here’s my story, I owned a Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated Amp and bought the Magnepan MMG’s. The speakers sounded bright from the word go, up until the time I got a Prima Luna tube preamp and Bel Canto amps.

My former speakers, the Von Schweikert VR-1’s didn’t sound bright at all.
I tried much of what other A/C members mentioned above, to no avail. The only thing I haven’t tried at this time is room treatments but I didn’t have them to begin with.

Regards,
Jerry

[medium jim]

Here’s my story, I owned a Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated Amp and bought the Magnepan MMG’s. The speakers sounded bright from the word go, up until the time I got a Prima Luna tube preamp and Bel Canto amps.

My former speakers, the Von Schweikert VR-1’s didn’t sound bright at all.
I tried much of what other A/C members mentioned above, to no avail. The only thing I haven’t tried at this time is room treatments but I didn’t have them to begin with.

Regards,
Jerry

MMG's are good speakers, but just don't have enough surface area to represent bass well.  That said, you will need a sub, preferably 2 to get them humping. 

Jim

[Rclark]

I remember the stock MMG being pretty bright. To be honest, that was one quality I really liked. If you aren't listening to elevator music, brightness has its virtues.

I'm sure the new ones are different.

[brooklyn]

MMG's are good speakers, but just don't have enough surface area to represent bass well.  That said, you will need a sub, preferably 2 to get them humping. 

Jim

I happen to like the way the MMG's sound without a sub, I'm actually getting solid (not humping)
bass out of them right now and the high's are smooth. I would go with the 1.7's before I get a sub
or two.

[Ericus Rex]

RE; being a purist and using the treble control.  Look at it this way; if the speakers and/or receiver are bright, then adjusting the treble control on the receiver would actually be more true to the original source.  Wouldn't it?

[jostber]

Happy New Year everyone.

I'm running a pair of Acoustic Zen Adagios from a Marantz 7001 AVR through Audio Art SC-5SE cables.  I like detail, which the combination can provide.  However, regardless of the source, the treble always sounds too harsh to me, leading to fatigue.  As this is a duel use setup, both home theater and 2-channel audio, I'm not giving up on the receiver, but I've read good things about these speakers and tubes.  Unfortunately, I've also read that the speakers blossom with power.  I'm a tube virgin and am wondering what those with experience think of introducing a hybrid such as the Vincent SP-331 to the mix.  I'd go full tube too, if enough power and musical detail are available for the right price.  My budget is limited, needing to stay under $1,000, but I'm comfortable going used.

Thanks for the help.
Aron

From 6moons review of the Adagios speakers and interview with the makers:

Likewise for the rationale behind Lee's circular ribbon tweeter. He deploys a nearly weightless transducer that is exceptionally smooth, fast and clean, richly detailed and not at all bright

and:

Your bass drivers do stop on a dime, with no discernible overhang. And the tweeter is not bright at all.


Other things that are very important to me as a designer are the phase and impedance curves. I think those are far more important than ultimate SPLs. You want those curves to be as flat as possible so you don't place a terrible strain on the amplifier. My phase curve is essentially flat from 10Hz to 40kHz. And the nominal impedance of the Adagios is 5 ohms. It is most flat from 100Hz to 10kHz, almost a straight line keeping within that 5 ohm impedance. You don't have different frequencies displaying wildly fluctuating impedances. Impedance is like resistance. So if different frequencies display different levels of resistance, the amplifier reacts and distortion is the result. As audio designers, we must reduce distortions wherever we find it to make the experience of listening to music more involving. That is the ultimate goal.
Robert Lee and Chip Stern

so it might seem like the brightness comes from another component in the system.

Some links:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticzen/adagio.html
http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/248

[medium jim]

I happen to like the way the MMG's sound without a sub, I'm actually getting solid (not humping)
bass out of them right now and the high's are smooth. I would go with the 1.7's before I get a sub
or two.

That's good....

Jim

[PMAT]

Has anything worked yet?

[Tausius]

Has anything worked yet?

I'm afraid that I haven't had an opportunity to try anything.  I'm a teacher, which means I spend way to much time at school, particularly during the week.  I should have some critical listening time tomorrow and will let you know how things are going.

The idea that it's another component is an interesting one.  The old speakers were never run with decent cable, so I may just have never been able to notice the problem.  I used to run generic Radio Shack wire, so the change to that of Audio Art was a big one.  It could certainly be that the cable is the culprit.

To answer another question previously posted, I'm good with going used, it goes along with teacher income levels.  I actually got the speakers through Audiogon, so there isn't quite as high a mismatch in expenditures between them and the receiver as might appear.

[thunderbrick]

Where you located?  Maybe there's an AC member nearby that could loan you some things to try. 

[DaveC113]

I made some speaker wire out of mil spec silver plated copper in a star quad, it was not bright sounding... in fact it is a very, very good solution for the money.

Interconnects can certainly change the balance, my speakers are on the bright/forward side and I prefer high purity or OCC copper, silver does tend to be too bright. I make my own cables so I can't recommend a particular commercial IC, except for the Jupiter Condenser 8 strand 6N copper cable that you need to terminate yourself. It is very smooth, lots of bass and definitely not bright while still presenting all the detail in the recording.

http://jupitercondenser.com/Cable/cotton-insulated-cable.html

I also built my own tube amp/preamp, and IMO it's a crapshoot whether a commercial tube amp is going to sound warm and mellow... my gear certainly does not. Considering the speakers you own I'm not sure a tube amp is going to be the best value for the money, although if you can, I'd certainly recommend trying out different amplifiers.

Your source could probably be better... lossless is good, but I'm not sure the DAC in the Marantz is going to be as good as others. So you could try out a decent DAC and see if that makes a difference.

Your room and 1st reflection points could be an issue as could speaker positioning as others pointed out, this would be good to experiment with...

Good Luck!

[Quiet Earth]

All of the speaker positioning tips were great, and obviously, yes you should definitely start there. First things first, of course. Try aiming the speakers further inward too, so the tweeters cross a few feet in front of your lap. If you clap your hands and you can hear the room ring, then add more furniture and area rugs, etc.

The old speakers were never run with decent cable, so I may just have never been able to notice the problem.  I used to run generic Radio Shack wire, so the change to that of Audio Art was a big one.  It could certainly be that the cable is the culprit.

It could be that the cable is guilty, or it might be that the new cable is just showing you what your system is capable of. Either way it's something to think about. When funds are abundant, you would keep the cable that opens the window wide, and start upgrading everything around it. But when money is tight, you should close that window, leaving it open just enough to shed a little light. I would put the radio shack wire back in place just to see if the brightness goes away. If it does, then you could sell your Art Audio cables to fund a new set of cables that will give you some of that detail, but won't contribute to brightness. That's why I recommended copper solid core wire, such as DNM Reson. But please don't go on a wild cable goose chase unless you feel like you've narrowed it down to just the speaker wire. I don't want to be the guy responsible for sending you down that rabbit hole.   (too late )

I made some speaker wire out of mil spec silver plated copper in a star quad, it was not bright sounding...

On your solid state receiver with an iPod as a source? 

[Rocket_Ronny]

Try aiming the speakers further inward too, so the tweeters cross a few feet in front of your lap.

It's good to try toeing in and out. Going in you will broaden the sweet spot width, get better focus most times, but will lose the air and naturalness when toeing the speakers out.

What I personally like for most speakers is to point the speakers right at you and then keep toeing them out to shoot past your head. Usually about 15-20 degrees of toe out works best if system is setup in an equilateral triangle. Yet have had to go as far as 50 degrees out with some bright speakers.


Rocket_Ronny

[Quiet Earth]

What I personally like for most speakers is to point the speakers right at you and then keep toeing them out to shoot past your head. Usually about 15-20 degrees of toe out works best if system is setup in an equilateral triangle.

Yes, that's what I used to do when I had narrow baffle (tall and skinny) speakers. Left tweeter aiming at the left shoulder, right tweeter aiming at the right shoulder. As a starting point anyway.

  Maybe this thread should be moved to the starting block.  ?

[Tausius]

On your solid state receiver with an iPod as a source? 

Yes, I know, all that digital on one hand, and asking about vacuum tubes...  a little unusual, I'm sure.

Adjusting position made a tremendous difference.  I shifted the speakers a little further out from center and  faced them straight into the room.  While the sound isn't yet quite where I'd like it, the improvement was dramatic.  Further tweaking will certainly make things even better.

Thank you all very much for the assistance.  I have to agree with Quiet Earth that it might make sense to move this thread to the starting block section.  The advice provided will be great for all of us who are new to the hobby.

Aron

[Doublej]

Has anyone mentioned turning the treble down a touch if the Marantz has tone control capabilities or the tried and true sheet of toilet paper or tissue in front of the tweeters?

Cheap to try, YMMV.

[rollo]

   Your speakers are not bright. The Marantz is on the warm side of neutral. IMO either the digital source or cabling is the issue. Try borrowing a DAC or CDP that is highly touted as a reference point.
    BTW Radio Shack wires which I like are a bit hard and bright. Using double runs is what we recco for inexpensive speaker wire. A tube buffer may add some difference for you to evaluate.
     Just gotta try all you can. A learning experience for sure and fun to boot. Enjoy the experience.


charles

[medium jim]

I agree with Rollo, while adjusting the speakers toe-in is a good starting point, cables & the source are definitely a contributor.

Jim

[twitch54]

Hey bubba, it might be yopur room, do you have lots of hard surface reflections?

Bingo.....all it took was 13 posts till someone suggested the obvious ! it always cracks me up when people want to make cable changes and all sorts of stuff before assuring the room / accoustic capatability. The room should always come first !!!!!

[Rocket_Ronny]

all it took was 13 posts till someone suggested the obvious !

Actually, it was at 7 posts when I talked about bright sound and hard paneling on the walls.   


Rocket_Ronny