[Tausius]

Happy New Year everyone.

I'm running a pair of Acoustic Zen Adagios from a Marantz 7001 AVR through Audio Art SC-5SE cables.  I like detail, which the combination can provide.  However, regardless of the source, the treble always sounds too harsh to me, leading to fatigue.  As this is a duel use setup, both home theater and 2-channel audio, I'm not giving up on the receiver, but I've read good things about these speakers and tubes.  Unfortunately, I've also read that the speakers blossom with power.  I'm a tube virgin and am wondering what those with experience think of introducing a hybrid such as the Vincent SP-331 to the mix.  I'd go full tube too, if enough power and musical detail are available for the right price.  My budget is limited, needing to stay under $1,000, but I'm comfortable going used.

Thanks for the help.
Aron

[Quiet Earth]

Hi Tausius and welcome aboard  ,
I'm not familiar with your gear but I'll make a couple of comments just to get the ball rolling....

First, I think you should list your primary music source to complete the picture.

A good tube amplifier won't make a bright system warm up unless the amp it replaces was too bright to begin with. So in this case, if your Marantz 7001 is the cause of your brightness, a better sounding solid state AVR could also be your answer. Someone who actually owns a 7001 is better qualified to answer this for you.

On the other hand, it does look like you spent more on your speakers than you did on your amplifier. I think that you should probably balance the scale if you really want to know what the speakers are capable of. If you tend to agree, you're probably going to need a lot more than 1000 dollars. Why make a lateral move?

I will make one recommendation. I don't like stranded, silver plated speaker wire. I think that those kinds of cables generally make for a bright and confused sound. The opposite kind of speaker cable would be all copper, solid core wire. My favorite budget speaker wire is DNM Reson Stereo solid core wire, and that might be all that you need to take the edge of of your system.

[Rocket_Ronny]

How about some Tubed Digital E.Q., or just plain Vanilla E.Q.. A whole lot cheaper than flipping gear.


Rocket_Digital E.Q. - The Final Frontier_Ronny

[JLM]

I'm a purist, so tend to avoid adding flavors on top of flavors, especially if you're trying to negate one with another.  But if you want to go this route, adding a tube buffer is the obvious easy/low cost route.

I agree with QE, my guess is that the Marantz (not knowing it at all) is probably the suspect as the brand (except for their top of the line audio stuff) is mid-fi quality and mid-fi marketing tends to go for sizzling highs and boomy bass.  (Of course I'm a "speaker guy" and will always support starting system building with speakers.)  And I agree with QE that your budget wouldn't allow for much more than a lateral move if you want lots of watts (unless you're willing to look at used gear).  Audiogon.com is still probably the best place to look, but many (like me) abandoned it when the format was "updated" a couple of years back.

[wisnon]

Get a tube Dac like the Lampizator level 2 and it will balance things out. Maybe one is available 2nd hand for a cheaper price online?

If you need to do cheaper, then the MHDT Havana Dac could fit your bill.

[roscoeiii]

A hybrid amp could be a good call. I liked the Butler I had with some speakers that needed more power than I could afford with an all tube amp. Haven't heard the Vincent, but it seems to be well-reviewed.

There were some Vincent hybrids for sale here somewhat recently IIRC. Not sure if they have sold or not.

[Rocket_Ronny]

I'm a purist

So am I. Best to system match and start with the speaker, or amp, selection. But there certainly is room for digital e.q., esp. if running a digital front end. It's amazing what a little e.q. here and a little there can do for a system.

I was so anti e.q., a purist you see, that when I got into this game I had a Kenwood integrated amp running a pair of Angstrom T2 monitors, which were very good by the way. The room had hard pannelling all over and I could not do much to alter the walls since they were my dad's.

I found the sound a little bright on some albums and blamed the speakers moslty. Even though I had treble and bass controls on the amp it was heresy to even touch those. Had I done so I would not have sold the speakers and maybe kept them all these years and saved myself a ton of money and effort. Well, maybe not, but you get the idea.

Digital e.q. can be fantastic and a lot better than tone controls on integrates.

Rocket_Use Those Tone Controls_Ronny

[Ericus Rex]

I think you might be disappointed trying to soften bright speakers with tubes.  Tube amps are rarely as 'soft' sounding as their detractors state.  Definitely try before you buy.  Got a friend with tubes or a good shop in the area?

The Marantz stuff should sound decent.  They're one of the better receiver brands out their.  I'd try the EQ in it before I shelled out hard earned dough on a tube amp without a home trial.

There are speaker cables and interconnects which could take out some of that sizzle.  Could it be that's just how the speakers sound?

[medium jim]

+1  good advice and reasoning.

Jim

[Rocket_Ronny]

Tube amps and pres come in all flavors from warm with a softened high end, to simply clean and clear, to even bright on the top.

Lower quality amps will come off as generally sounding harsh, or less musical than better units. Yet, can work wonders when system matched to veiled speakers.

Cables, esp. interconnects can make a system bright, or hard sounding. Even after market power cords can brighten a system.

I doubt it's the speakers.

Rocket_Ronny

[wisnon]

All this amp talk ignores the SOURCE, where I think the biggest impact outside of speakers are.

[cujobob]

I think those speakers are a bit bright and are most likely the issue. Receivers can make a bright speaker sound worse, but generally speaking...I'd find a speaker you're happy with and not worry so much about changing the sound.

[diofan56]

Are your speakers turned in?  If so move them so they are facing straight ahead.  I never point speakers in because they sound too bright.  I can still hear everything just fine.

Dave

[PMAT]

Hey bubba, it might be yopur room, do you have lots of hard surface reflections? I have had many Marantz products and I don't think the problem is there. Try moving your stuff to another room(just the audio) and see what happens. No cost. Also, try putting things like big Ficus trees and blankets around your listening space and see what happens. Tilting the speakers back can also dramatically change the sound. Also, don't be a purist. Turn the treble down 2-4 db on your Marantz. Don't listen right away for lack of detail, it will be there. let you ears adjust. I bet you can fix this for free.

[Ericus Rex]

Are your speakers turned in?  If so move them so they are facing straight ahead.  I never point speakers in because they sound too bright.  I can still hear everything just fine.

Dave

That's a good and free suggestion.  Try every angle between directly facing you and directly facing forward and see if you reach a good balance to your ears.

[medium jim]

I would also try some absorption at the 1st reflection point to soften things up a bit.

Jim

[BobRex]

Or you could just disconnect one of the tweeters, like Werd did. 

No, don't do that!  It was inane when he did it, and it wouldn't be any less so if you did.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Are your speakers turned in?

Totally great answer. Some speakers are designed to be hot on axis and are not to be pointed right at the listening chair. I have pointed some speakers straight ahead or even pointing outwards to get the right balance. This is what I do first, play with speaker positioning. I also make sure to have a pillow, or damped material behind my head if I sit near a wall.

Rocket_Ronny

[Tausius]

All I can say is Wow; these are fantastic comments.  Thank you all very much for your input.  I have been playing the purist path and not messed with the treble controls on the Marantz.  The source is primarily lossless digital music (hi-rez downloads and ripped cds) via an iPod in a Pure i-20 dock.  DAC work is done by the receiver.

I definitely like the idea of a no cost solution.  I think I'll start with toe-in and see where that gets me.
Thanks again. I very much appreciate all of the great advice.
Aron

[JerryLove]

I absolutely agree to start with position, alignment, and dealing with the first reflection points.

If you haven't found other speakers bright, another possibility is that there's some odd current needs (a couple of my speakers just don't sound right off AVRs I have here, and usually I find demanding impedance curves). If you've got a guitar center or the like, you could try hooking up a more powerful amp (Crown has a 1500W amp well under $1k, and Guitar Center has a good return policy) and see if that's a problem.

An FR and spectral decay plot would be good resources.

Consider also just running Audessy.