preamp advice

beaglebump · « **on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:41 am »

I'm down to three phono preamps in the quest for an upgrade to my EAR 834p DeLuxe. I enjoy the synergy tube phono pre's seem to reflect with my SimAudio Moon power plant, but my presentation preference leans towards overachievers in detail and resolution. I've auditioned both Keith Herron's VTPH-2 and the (relatively) new Zesto Andros PS1 - both holding some very nice traits that better (IMHO) the EAR. However, I'm also very interested in the Esoteric E-03. Solid state, yes, but perhaps a direction that is worth persuing. Living in a remote rural area of MO, it is otherwise difficult for me to audition pieces, thus rely heavily on internet research. Anyone have some learned comparative thoughts between the above preamps? Always curious on other's experiences. Thank you ~

jtwrace · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:45 am »

You can buy my 50 hr Zesto Andros.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 03:39 am »

All three of those are a fantastic choice and offer a lot more performance over the EAR.

Because you are mentioning the Zesto, is it safe to assume your budget is around $4-5k?

Are you talking new or used?

SimAudio is actually coming out with a more modestly priced version of their 810LP at CES this year,
might be worth waiting to see just where they price it.

beaglebump · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 03:49 am »

jtwrace - The Zesto not work out for you in your system? Curious what your thoughts are/were. Has had a lot of good press, lots of loading flexibility, but personal initial thoughts are it doesn't have as much PRAT as the Herron. I run the Herron unloaded for my Dyn XV-1s, and I feel I can hear everything. Andros is quieter than the Herron, however.

catastrofe · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 11:20 am »

I demo'd a number of stages in my system before settling on the Herron VTPH-2...PS Audio GCPH, Musical Surroundings Phonomena, Sutherland PH-3D, Musical Fidelity M1-Vinyl, Sanders Sound Systems phno stage, and Linn Uphorik.

The Sanders was the next best compared to the Herron.

jtwrace · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 12:53 pm »

Quote from: beaglebump on 3 Dec 2012, 03:49 am

jtwrace - The Zesto not work out for you in your system? Curious what your thoughts are/were. Has had a lot of good press, lots of loading flexibility, but personal initial thoughts are it doesn't have as much PRAT as the Herron. I run the Herron unloaded for my Dyn XV-1s, and I feel I can hear everything. Andros is quieter than the Herron, however.

Works great but selling my vinyl.

dminches · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 02:02 pm »

At your price range I would also consider the Cary PH-302 MKII which uses 6SL7s which are very nice sounding tubes. And then there is also the Aesthetix Rhea.

orientalexpress · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 03:17 pm »

Quote from: dminches on 3 Dec 2012, 02:02 pm

At your price range I would also consider the Cary PH-302 MKII which uses 6SL7s which are very nice sounding tubes. And then there is also the Aesthetix Rhea.

I agree,6sl7s tubes phono stage sound Great

lapsan

TomS · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: beaglebump on 3 Dec 2012, 03:49 am

jtwrace - The Zesto not work out for you in your system? Curious what your thoughts are/were. Has had a lot of good press, lots of loading flexibility, but personal initial thoughts are it doesn't have as much PRAT as the Herron. I run the Herron unloaded for my Dyn XV-1s, and I feel I can hear everything. Andros is quieter than the Herron, however.

I've had the Zesto Andros since May, using it now with a Soundsmith Hyperion 2 loaded at 1k, and previously a Zu Denon 103R. Yes, the PS1 is definitely quiet and it seems to have very nice PRAT, however you gauge that separate from the TT, but I've never heard the Herron or an Esoteric. I certainly don't feel like I'm missing anything, discovering new nuances every day, and it consistently sounds good to me on most material. I'm still very happy with mine.

beaglebump · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 04:39 pm »

Thanks all for your thoughts.
Tonepub - Correct in that budget (new) is around $4-5k. Most of my pieces however are preowned, so realistically I'm in the 3k range. Still on the merry-go-round listening to the Herron and Zesto, taking notes, and trying to abide by first impressions - as a professional musician, I trust this. Comes down to synergy w/ the rest of the system, I know. The Andros seems to offer a beautifully balanced presentation - a little soft in the lower frequencies at times, and some issues with cloudy source separation/staging, but a preamp to grow with, no doubt. The Herron seems a tint noisier, but I think this is only due to being unloaded on my XV-1s cart, thus everything's on the table in terms of presentation - even surface noise. Source placement/soundstage are spot-on, however, w/ beautiful detail and transparency. Again, its all about synergy, I presume.

Some widely published reviewers I've contacted on this topic feel the Herron isn't even in the same league as the Zesto. I find this curious. I hit this topic w/ Mike Fremer as well, as he's one of few I'm aware of that's evaluated both the Andros (due out next issue), and the Esoteric E-03. He's a fan of the Esoteric, to be sure, and thought bet. the two, the Esoteric offers far more "jolt." Anyone had experience with the Esoteric as well?

J-Pak · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 05:12 pm »

I am a big fan of Pass Labs phono-stages. Extremely quiet, well built (in the USA) with good customer service and sound fantastic. The XP-15 is really nice. A used XOno is also a great value and performs well above its used price.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 05:18 pm »

And I will chime in with my recommendation of the Avid Pulsus. Bettered my LP 5.3 with external power supply. Really not much of a contest, especially noticeable in bass detail, and being less bright. If you are looking for detail and drive, give it a try. Music Direct sells them, so you could take advantage of their excellent return policy. They are also coming out with another Avid phono preamp shortly that will also be in your price range IIRC.

ptmconsulting · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 07:40 pm »

I would take a serious look at this opportunity (Hagerman Trumpet). Excellent phono stage that rarely comes up for resale.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/phono-hagerman-trumpet-2012-11-15-preamplifiers-v3j-2t6-canada

BobRex · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: beaglebump on 3 Dec 2012, 04:39 pm

Thanks all for your thoughts.
Tonepub - Correct in that budget (new) is around $4-5k. Most of my pieces however are preowned, so realistically I'm in the 3k range. Still on the merry-go-round listening to the Herron and Zesto, taking notes, and trying to abide by first impressions - as a professional musician, I trust this. Comes down to synergy w/ the rest of the system, I know. The Andros seems to offer a beautifully balanced presentation - a little soft in the lower frequencies at times, and some issues with cloudy source separation/staging, but a preamp to grow with, no doubt. The Herron seems a tint noisier, but I think this is only due to being unloaded on my XV-1s cart, thus everything's on the table in terms of presentation - even surface noise. Source placement/soundstage are spot-on, however, w/ beautiful detail and transparency. Again, its all about synergy, I presume.

Some widely published reviewers I've contacted on this topic feel the Herron isn't even in the same league as the Zesto. I find this curious. I hit this topic w/ Mike Fremer as well, as he's one of few I'm aware of that's evaluated both the Andros (due out next issue), and the Esoteric E-03. He's a fan of the Esoteric, to be sure, and thought bet. the two, the Esoteric offers far more "jolt." Anyone had experience with the Esoteric as well?

Keep in mind that the Andros is today's darling unit; the Herron VTPH-2 hasn't had that many reviews. So I'd take the reviewer's statements with a grain of salt.

The Andros uses a SUT for its MC stage, the Herron uses a FET amp. The softness you hear with the Andros "may" be a function of the SUT. The Herron should come with load resistors, have you tried loading? Or better yett, get a SUT and try it into the Herron's MM input. That may just suprise you.

beaglebump · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 11:44 pm »

I have two sets of load plugs from Keith that I initially experimented with. With my former Blackbird cart, they seemed to tame the high output nicely w/o rounding off the extremes of the frequency spectrum. With the low-output Dyn XV-1s, it was best unloaded, which at 47k, is how Keith suggests one initially listen to the Herron VTPH-2. Hadn't thought about experimenting with a step-up on the mm side - might see. There is of course, the Pandora's box of rolling some other tubes into either unit, but I'd rather not go down that road yet. Just trying to A/B on the "house" sound. I may connect with Music Direct to see if they would send out an Esoteric E-03 for audition, if in stock. Really would like to have a listen through this as well.

catastrofe · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Dec 2012, 12:48 am »

MD is running a special on the E-03 at $3,999. You'll see on their E-03 landing page: "Call For Best Price". . .that's it. I had inquired about whether their 30 day money back guarantee still applied, and I was told "of course".

beaglebump · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Dec 2012, 04:24 am »

Catastrofe - Thanks for the heads-up! I'll likely give a call to MD this week.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Jan 2013, 01:27 am »

I too am beginning the search for a phono stage to up grade my Art Audio Vinyl Reference. The Andros PS -1 and Herron are on my short list. I liked the sound of the Simaudio, but not wild about the loading switches being on the bottom. I'm also thinking about the Manley Steelhead, although it is a little more than what I have budgeted. I've heard the Andros at RMAF and really liked it. I have also looked at the Rhea. I'm running a Lyra Skala and Sumiko Blackbird cartridges on an SME 20/2 with an SME IV.Vi arm.

Has anyone heard the Esoteric? Other ideas? The Pass XP-25 is more than I want to spend. Other suggestions?

Thanks

Laura

S Clark · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Jan 2013, 03:28 am »

I know that Gary Dodd uses the Sumiko Blackbird cartridge, so it is reasonable to assume that he voiced his Dodd Phono Pre using that cartridge. Since he is a one man operation he doesn't get much press for his phono pre, but I was very impressed with one that I heard- to the point that I bought one. I don't know what budget you are looking for, but these are $1200- I had Mundorfs put in mine for an extra bit.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Jan 2013, 08:54 pm »

I've heard Gary's equipment in the GR room at RMAF and it sounds quite good. Since my primary cartridge is the Skala which is a low ouput MC, I'm more interested in a phono stage that does not require the use of a SUT for low output MC cartridges. My budget is in the $3 to $6K range.

Thanks for the suggestion.