Looking for my first set of Maggies for Music/HT

Ekeman · « **on:** 2 Dec 2012, 05:52 pm »

I'm looking to upgrade/change my box speakers to a set of Maggies, specifically either the MMG or MG-12 for the front L/R, and MMG-C / MMG-W for the center and surrounds. I've been running an Anthem MRX-500 AVR, I do not have a separate amp at this time. I think the receiver's amp is fairly good, but obviously does not compare to having a separate amp. Anyone have some experience using an MRX receiver with Maggies without a separate amp? I could add a separate amp down the road, but don't want to have to add the amp at the same time I get the Maggies. The loudest I ever listen to is approximately -10db to reference, but more typically I listen at volumes between -20db to -15db to reference. Appreciate any thoughts/opinions from Maggie owners, not just for using the AVR for the time being, but also with regards to speaker selection. Music is top priority, but we also enjoy HT. Thanks!

josh358 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: Ekeman on 2 Dec 2012, 05:52 pm

I'm looking to upgrade/change my box speakers to a set of Maggies, specifically either the MMG or MG-12 for the front L/R, and MMG-C / MMG-W for the center and surrounds. I've been running an Anthem MRX-500 AVR, I do not have a separate amp at this time. I think the receiver's amp is fairly good, but obviously does not compare to having a separate amp. Anyone have some experience using an MRX receiver with Maggies without a separate amp? I could add a separate amp down the road, but don't want to have to add the amp at the same time I get the Maggies. The loudest I ever listen to is approximately -10db to reference, but more typically I listen at volumes between -20db to -15db to reference. Appreciate any thoughts/opinions from Maggie owners, not just for using the AVR for the time being, but also with regards to speaker selection. Music is top priority, but we also enjoy HT. Thanks!

Ekeman, power is sufficient although you'd probably gain by adding some more, but the MRX-500 spec sheet lists only 8 ohm power figures. That usually means that a receiver can't handle a 4 ohm load like the Maggies, though there are exceptions and if nobody hear knows you should try searching/asking elsewhere. I can make a better guess if you tell me whether you're using an 83 dB (SMPTE) or 89 dB (Replay Gain) reference level, and how you measured your listening levels (peak or average). There are two things we have to watch for here: current clipping, a function of instantaneous peak levels, and thermal shutdown, which is more closely related to short-term average levels. But even then, it would only be a guess without more thorough amplifier specs, so it's better to find somebody who's tried it.

Ekeman · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 08:49 pm »

Josh, have not been able to find anyone running any of the Anthem AVR's with Maggies (yet), I've got a post on the Anthem AVR thread at AVS forums, we'll see if anyone replies. Best info I can find on the MRX-500 capabilities is that it is at least on par with amp sections from similarly priced receivers ($1500). Test reviews of the MRX receivers show that the MRX-500 should be capable of 175Wx2@4ohms, 125Wx2@8ohms, and 90Wx5@8ohms, all continuous power. I'm thinking this should be adequate for getting started, and I could add an outboard amp down the road, if necessary.

I'm basing my listening levels on the MRX auto-calibration being "0" for 85db ref level, and I typically listen at levels between -20 to -12. I've no idea if the MRX is referenced to SMPTE or Replay Gain, but when I have some time I can play some calibration tracks from a test disk and measure with my RS meter to see if I'm correct in my assumption that MRX volume level of "0" is equivalent to 85db.

Any thoughts on my proposed Maggie speaker choice (MMG or MG-12 for the front L/R, and MMG-C / MMG-W for the center and surrounds).

SteveFord · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 09:33 pm »

There's a new and improved MMG coming out this January so maybe wait a little bit for the mains.

Ekeman · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 09:54 pm »

Steve, I'm just starting the hunt now, was planning on buying after the holidays, so a January release of a new MMG lines up with my plan. Do you have any details on the new MMG which can be shared in the forum?

ajzepp · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 10:10 pm »

You've come to the right place, but you may also want to head over to the audio asylum and check in the "planar asylum". There are many, many long time Maggie owners there and it's a wealth of info. I know many of them cross-post here, which is a good thing, but I learned nearly everything I know about Magnepans from the asylum. There are some active threads on AVS, but nothing like what you'll find here and at the asylum.

My opinion? AVRs won't cut it. If you have one that can safely drive them, nothing wrong with that, but just know you're not giving them what they need to truly sound their best. I used to not really believe all that, because when I first got my 3.6s I was driving them with 150wpc to each speaker from my Butler multi-channel amp. They sounded great. But then I decided to go ahead and bi-amp them, so I picked up a Marchand crossover and another Butler amp. So I had 400wpc (4ohm) into each bass panel, and 225 wpc (4ohm) into each mid/treb. I also added a dedicated 20a circuit. Well, as good as they sounded with just one channel of my Butler amp, once I was done with all this messing around the sound was just staggeringly good. The Anthem gear is typically very well built and they have potent amp sections...but if you really want the Maggies to sing, they need a good outboard power amp. You don't need to break the bank, though. Assuming your Anthem has pre-outs, you can always find great deals on Rotel, Parasound, B&K, Emotiva, etc amps on the used market.

Great choice on the Maggies, though! Just prepare to be ruined for all box speakers once you get going!

PS. MMG-Ws with MMG mains is a great way to go....as for the center, I'd really encourage you to find a used CC3 or pick up a newer CC5 center. Or you could even do what I did for the first two years I had my MMGs - go phantom center. Especially when you're in the sweet spot, the MMGs will put a rock solid center image out there for you.

SteveFord · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 10:24 pm »

The only thing that I can say with any certainty regarding the new MMGs is that it incorporates the .7 technology so I'm assuming that the sound will be similar to the larger ones. I'll poke around this site a little bit as there's some more information squirreled away.
Another thought is if you listen near field or have a small room check out the Mini Maggie system - it's stupendous and you won't require boatloads of power.
Here's some stuff on the upcoming MMG:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-amazes-%E2%80%99s-iamazesi

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/10/18/rmaf12-dealer-direct-and-the-magnepan-story/

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2012/rmaf2012_arc_magnepan.htm

Today is football day so I've been listening to MMGs w/ a CC5 and an SVS sub and that's a really nice combination. The CC5 is closer sonically to the 1.7s than it is to the my MMGs which probably date from around 1995 or thereabouts.
You don't hear much about the MG12 as they're too close in price to the 1.7s and people tend to leapfrog them. The last time I asked I was told that there were no upgrade plans for the 12s.

ajzepp · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 11:06 pm »

Steve, which sub are you using?

bummrush · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 11:11 pm »

I had a pair don't skimp on electronics . I used a HK preamp didn't even get close to finding out how good they could, the HK amp did fine though, I had some MGM's

Ekeman · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 11:28 pm »

Though the 1.7's might be significant improvement over the the MMG/MG-12, the 1.7 will not meet the wife approval factor, and it becomes a bit of a budget buster. I'm looking to spend around $2k, could go to $2.5k if I come across a great deal, but size wise I need to stick with something along the lines of the MMG/MG-12, and either the MMG-W or possibly the MC1 for surrounds.

The room is about 16'x25', L/R speakers will be on the long wall surrounding a 63" plasma, no issue with having the L/R speakers up to 30" from the rear wall. I have a 12" sealed sub which is very good for music, and has output down to the 20 Hz region.

I've been reading everything I can about Maggies for the last couple of weeks, one question I did have was the difference between the MMGC, with a claimed response down to 100Hz, versus the CC5 with a response down to 200Hz, I would have thought the more expensive CC5 would have the lower frequency response. I'm a bit concerned that if I went with a CC5 center, would I be able to achieve smooth transition from the CC5 to the sub.

SteveFord · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 11:41 pm »

It's an older, downfiring one w/ a single port which weighs a ton - PB12-ISD.
It's really overkill for the MMGs so the gain is set at around 8:00-9:00 which blends it in nicely.

I've been wondering if they were going to update the rest of the MMG family or just the MMGs themselves?
If they don't, the CC3 or CC5 would be more like it, I would think.
Blending a sub in doesn't present much of a problem - set the crossover between 40 and 50 Hz, turn the gain down so it's not overpowering everything and you're good to go.

ajzepp · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 11:46 pm »

Quote from: SteveFord on 2 Dec 2012, 11:41 pm

It's an older, downfiring one w/ a single port which weighs a ton - PB12-ISD.
It's really overkill for the MMGs so the gain is set at around 8:00-9:00 which blends it in nicely.

I've been wondering if they were going to update the rest of the MMG family or just the MMGs themselves?
If they don't, the CC3 or CC5 would be more like it, I would think.
Blending a sub in doesn't present much of a problem - set the crossover between 40 and 50 Hz, turn the gain down so it's not overpowering everything and you're good to go.

Nice, I had excellent results with each of my SVS models, too. I had a PB12-ISD/2, which was just a monster of a sub. I later upgraded to the PB13-Ultra, but even the little PB10-ISD worked amazingly well. The little Outlaw M8 I'm using now is similarly awesome and blends in surprisingly well with my 3.6s for HT (I run the big mamas full range for music). I fully agree, though....blending a sub with the MMGs is not hard at all....very good results to be had.

SteveFord · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 12:17 am »

I was wondering earlier today why they include such high powered plate amps with the subs considering most people will have them dialed down to just about nothing.
I guess it's for people who want to make the house shake when they watch Jurrassic Park - that was a really fun movie!

ajzepp · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:07 am »

Quote from: SteveFord on 3 Dec 2012, 12:17 am

I was wondering earlier today why they include such high powered plate amps with the subs considering most people will have them dialed down to just about nothing.
I guess it's for people who want to make the house shake when they watch Jurrassic Park - that was a really fun movie!

No doubt...I never even came close to really pushing any of the SVS models I had...I still remember a scene in the Edward Norton Hulk movie toward the end...Hulk was stomping through the city at night and it was so damn intense...smacking you right in the chest with bass waves. I had a friend over that night and she still remembers it, too....this was several years ago. First time I had the PB12-ISD/2 I recall the cannons on Master and Commander....unreal! Great subs can really transform your movie experience

geowak · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:09 am »

I have MMG's and I use a Parasound A21. The sound is clear and unrestrained. I would not go with a HT receiver because I don't think you will get the best sound out of them without the current of a dedicated two channel amp or mono amps. Even a class d ice amp might work well, like a Bel Canto.

I have tried running a Yamaha, Denon and Marantz receiver into 4 ohm speakers. The results often left the receivers straining. I have heard and owned stereo amps by McCormack, Rotel, Odyssey Audio, Parasound, AR and Musical Fidelity running 4ohm speakers and low sensitivity speakers with much, much better fidelity.

My two cents...FWIW

jk@home · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:38 am »

If that Anthems receiver will drive 4 ohm loads it will "work" for now. If you have pre outs on the back, you can upgrade to separate amps later, and still use the receiver as an HT preamp.

The MMGs are part of the upgrade program, you can trade them in for larger Maggies later (but that excludes the MG12). Plus they have a trial period with the option to return if they don't work out. Good deal.

SteveFord · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:40 am »

It's possible the Anthem might be just fine but they're right in that these speakers will show up anything that isn't up to the task.
I'm using a hot rodded Hafler from AVNerdguy with very good results. It's similar to my old HK Citation 22 but with better detail retrieval and much tighter bass.

I asked Wendell what he does with the returned MMGs and he said that they get very few back.

Ekeman · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:50 am »

Thanks for all the input, think we'll start with the Anthem running the Maggies, and I'll add an amp by the summer, will keep on eye on the used market for some of the amps already mentioned. I've got a 2 channel Citation amp (100W if IRC) sitting in storage, I'll use the Citation to run the L/R, and run the center/surrounds from the AVR.

For those running a CC3/CC5 for a center, do you let your pre-pro do the bass management, or follow the instructions I've seen on the magnepan website (redirect the CC5 bass to the L/R, run the L/R as full range, and also send the full range signal to the sub and use the sub's x-over controls for bass management).

WC · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:55 am »

The anthem receivers are able to drive 4 ohm loads. How well I am not real sure.

SteveFord · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 01:55 am »

No pre/pro for me, just a line out to a Bryston pro amp w/ a gain control on the front.
Line out to the sub as well - hey, it's a 2 channel preamp I'm using but it all works together well.
The Citation should be fine, by the way.