[ajzepp]

I have a McCormack MAP-1, which is a multi-channel analog pre. It has two 5.1 inputs and a 5.1 output. What I do is use my Oppo player for bass mgmt and then just run the sub-out cable from the Oppo into the McCormack. The CC3 and CC5 have different needs, though. The 3's FR extends down to 80hz, so you can set the crossover at 80 or 100hz. The 5 has a much higher point where you'd need to cross them over, so your configuration will depend on which model you pick up.

[josh358]

Josh, have not been able to find anyone running any of the Anthem AVR's with Maggies (yet), I've got a post on the Anthem AVR thread at AVS forums, we'll see if anyone replies. Best info I can find on the MRX-500 capabilities is that it is at least on par with amp sections from similarly priced receivers ($1500). Test reviews of the MRX receivers show that the MRX-500 should be capable of 175Wx2@4ohms, 125Wx2@8ohms, and 90Wx5@8ohms, all continuous power. I'm thinking this should be adequate for getting started, and I could add an outboard amp down the road, if necessary.

I'm basing my listening levels on the MRX auto-calibration being "0" for 85db ref level, and I typically listen at levels between -20 to -12. I've no idea if the MRX is referenced to SMPTE or Replay Gain, but when I have some time I can play some calibration tracks from a test disk and measure with my RS meter to see if I'm correct in my assumption that MRX volume level of "0" is equivalent to 85db.

Any thoughts on my proposed Maggie speaker choice (MMG or MG-12 for the front L/R, and MMG-C / MMG-W for the center and surrounds).

Ekeman, taking your loudest reported level, - 10 dB, gives 75 dB SPL at 1 meter. No need to calibrate to SMPTE or Replay Gain specs, the figure you gave already does that. You you measured with a Radio Shack meter, so to get instantaneous peak level, you need to add about 10 dB, which brings you to 85 dB SPL at 1 meter. Add in room gain and subtract falloff due to distance to your chair, and you really aren't talking much power. You should be OK with those 4 ohm figures somone gave for the Anthem, assuming they're real power, that is, all channels firing and not the optimistic one-channel-at-a-time figure you sometimes see for receivers. And you can always upgrade your amp later, as you suggest.

The MMG's are superb, the 12's even better. Also there's a new option, adding the DWM woofer to the MMG's to extent the bass response. The cost of a pair of MMG's and a DWM is roughly comparable to the price for a pair of 12's. One nice thing about the DWM option is you can add it at any time.

As Steve pointed out, you should wait a bit for the new MMG, assuming you go that way rather than with the 12's.

[bummrush]

And for th size of your room the MMG's should be a good fit. Those speakers have a nice big sound.

[Ekeman]

Appreciate all of the great information available at this forum.

To refresh, I'm buying my first set of Maggies for a Music/HT system, music being the first priority. I'm buying from the "pre-owned" market (sounds better than "used", right?) and have settled in on MC1's for the surrounds, CC3 for the center, and now have to decide what speakers for the mains. I'm planning to go with either the new MMG's or a pre-owned set of MG-1.6's (got the WAF approval today that the 1.6's would not be too large). Would appreciate any and all comments on the new MMG's vs. used 1.6's (new 1.7's would be a budget buster).

My room is approximately 16'x25', L/R speakers will be centered on the long wall surrounding a 63" plasma, no issue with having the L/R speakers 30"-34" from the front wall, and I have a 12" sealed sub which is very good for music, and has output down to the 20 Hz region.

Thanks!

[SteveFord]

I don't know of anybody who has actually heard the new MMGs but the 1.6s would throw a larger soundstage and have more output potential due to sheer panel size.

[josh358]

I agree with Steve. The new MMG's have only been shipping for two months so no feedback yet on how they sound. But the 1.6's have a better image, go lower, and play louder. You can improve the imaging of the MMG by putting it on a custom stand, but why go to the trouble?

One things I suggest -- make sure your 1.6's were either made since 2005 or so, or that they were factory rebuilt. The reason for this is that the adhesives they used to use were moisture sensitive and could delaminate, requiring repair. If you call Magnepan with the serial numbers of the speakers you're interested in, they can tell you what year they were made.

Suggest you try to bring your speakers forwards 5', by the way. I've found that they'll work at anything above 3' but sound better at 5'.

[Ekeman]

Thanks for the tip on checking the age, I've asked the seller when he purchased the 1.6's, also have the s/n's so I can verify with Magnepan.

Placing the speaker any further away than 3' from the front wall will not be possible. One concern I have is if the 1.6 is too large of a speaker to have only 3' away from the front wall, though I can add some absorption panels and/or heavy drapes on the front wall behind the speakers. If 3' is not enough for the 1.6's, I could go with the MMG's and tweak them once they've broken in and I've spent some time with them. Tweaks I would be looking at performing on the MMG's are stands/elevation off the floor, and xovers.

[josh358]

The minimum distance guidelines apply equally to all floorstanding dipoles, unfortunately. (And almost all speakers, actually, but it matters more with dipoles.) It's a matter of the timing the rear wave reflection -- you want it to be delayed by at least 10 milliseconds, which is 10' round trip.

Again, they'll work at 3', just sound their best further out. Acoustical treatment can help, it's something you can experiment with -- diffusion or absorption.

Another possibility is to use the on-wall models as mains, they're designed to send the rear wave skittering off towards the sides.

[Ekeman]

I'm picking up the MC1's I purchased for surround duty next weekend, I can try them in the L/R speaker position to see if I'm happy using the MC1's before I commit to the MMG or 1.6's for the mains. Any advice on how I can set them up for evaluation w/o actually attaching them to the wall?

[SteveFord]

I suspect that the new MMGs are going to be quite a bit different than the earlier models. 
Whatever tweaks applied to the older ones may not work other than stands, of course.
Can't you just prop the MC1s up with a pole for a quick test?
They'd be best used for surround duty, the MMGs and 1.6s are better speakers.

[josh358]

I'm picking up the MC1's I purchased for surround duty next weekend, I can try them in the L/R speaker position to see if I'm happy using the MC1's before I commit to the MMG or 1.6's for the mains. Any advice on how I can set them up for evaluation w/o actually attaching them to the wall?

Magnepan makes a temporary mounting kit for just that purpose.

[SteveFord]

Would those work for a few feet away from the wall?

[raindance]

You don't mention ceiling height, unless I missed it. This is an important piece of the puzzle. I have tried both in a similar size room as yours (8' ceiling) (previous model MMG and the older version). MMG is too small to move much air (and no, this does not only apply to low bass) and is very bright sounding compared to MG1.6 (which I have now). I also found that long wall placement resulted in a brighter sound with less bass with both speakers. I have achieved best results with short wall placement, but you won't like this, using the Cardas calculator (which works well) pushes the speakers 6 or 7 feet into the room. All of them, the MMG & the 1.6 sound better this way.

The 1.6 is a lot warmer sounding than the MMG.

[josh358]

I suspect that the new MMGs are going to be quite a bit different than the earlier models. 
Whatever tweaks applied to the older ones may not work other than stands, of course.
Can't you just prop the MC1s up with a pole for a quick test?
They'd be best used for surround duty, the MMGs and 1.6s are better speakers.

Well, as their site points out, they're basically the tweeter and midrange from the MMG's and 1.6's, with the DWM the bass part. So the drivers are comparable. I think the difference is more what happens to the back wave. The MMG's and 1.6's are certainly better if you can get them far enough off the front wall. But if you can't do that, the MC1's are tuned to work on the wall. So my thought was that they might sound better in this case, since he can only pull his mains out three feet. But it's on the edge, I've listened to floorstanders at three feet and it isn't terrible.

I think Wendell would be the guy to ask on this, since he's in a position to make a direct comparison. I know he believes that most audiophiles underestimate what the on-walls can do. They're so much smaller, they don't *look* like they're as good, but most of the area of a planar is devoted to bass. So they're really the same thing. But no one has a chance to hear them because dealers don't demo them, and they don't seem to get reviewed in the audiophile publications, either. They get reviewed in the home theater publications, and the reviews are great, but audiophiles don't see them, or assume they're just home theater speakers. And so their sales are to people with dual home theater/audio setups.

[josh358]

Would those work for a few feet away from the wall?

I don't know. They call it a "disposable speaker stand" but I've never actually seen one so I don't know how rigid it is.

[Ekeman]

Lots of good advice and questions, thanks to all for that, see replies below:

1) The room is 16'x25', vaulted ceilings (12' at max height) and the rear is open into the kitchen. The room has couch, loveseat, bookcases, desk, area rugs, ottomans, etc in it, I don't consider it to be excessively "live" with my current box speakers.

2) As the room doubles for HT/Music/Family Room, there are not a lot of placement options. I'm pretty much forced to have the Maggies on the long wall, max of 3' out from the front wall, about 8'-9' from either sidewall.

3) I've been reading up on some temporary mounting solutions to placing the MC1's in the main L/R position, I should be able to figure something out to evaluate if I'd be happy using the MC1's as my mains.

4) The owner of the used 1.6's I've been looking at has said they are between 7-8 years old, I do have the s/n's and will give Magnepan a call on Monday to find out if the speakers were built with the older adhesive.

5) If the 1.6's were built with the older adhesive, and I'm not satisfied with MC1 in the mains position, I'll probably go with new MMG's and eventually get around to tweaking them once some feedback comes in from the community.

6) At the end of the day, I realize I'm not going to have an optimized setup for the Maggies due to room placement options. What I am looking for is to improve/upgrade my current box speakers (which I am happy with, but I have the upgrade itch and have wanted to try Maggies for years). My receiver is an Anthem MRX-500, comes with "Anthem Room Correction", which has worked very good in my room, understand that speaker placement and room treatments s/b first priorities, but the Anthem has worked great for smoothing out the bass and reducing room resonances.

[josh358]

That was a marvel of clarity.

I think the essence of it is that whatever you do, it will be a huge upgrade from your boxes. Maggies make great home theater speakers. Their realism adds a lot to the experience of watching a movie. And whatever our situation, few of us have the option to set them up in perfect arrangements in a perfect room.

So it's really a matter of what works best in your specific situation, and in your budget.

One concern I have with the MMG's is that they start to sound strained at high levels. You have a big room and you're using them for home theater. One possibility, if you do go with the MMG's, is to raise the crossover point of the sub to 80 Hz. That reduces diaphragm excursion significantly, since most of that is in the bass, and allows them to play cleanly at higher levels.

[Ekeman]

Thanks Josh, I'll post back after I've had a chance to try out the MC1's as main L/R speakers.

No problem crossing the sub over at 80 Hz, that was the recommended xover from Anthem's ARC for my present speakers, even though they have good output into the 50 Hz range. Believe that the sub provides a smoother bass response than the woofers in my current speakers.

[ajzepp]

I think the essence of it is that whatever you do, it will be a huge upgrade from your boxes.Maggies make great home theater speakers. Their realism adds a lot to the experience of watching a movie.

Amen to this! Maggies give you a completely organic movie experience...so many great memories of "Maggie Magic" with a variety of films I've seen over the years. Even the most subtle nuances of a soundtrack can come to life in a way that is captivating.

[Ekeman]

Update on my quest for Maggies for my Music/HT system. I spoke with Wendell earlier this week to get his thoughts on going with MMG/1.2/1.7 or MC1's as mains in my room (issue was that 3' was the max I could move them out from the front wall), Wendell did not see that as a major issue, his opinion was that the larger Maggies would not be any more compromised than my current box speakers, and recommended I go to see the NJ dealer (The Audio Connection) for a demo.

I demoed 1.7's and 1.2's at The Audio Connection this week, and decided that 1.7's were my preferred choice, WAF pending. Since then, I've picked up my used MC1's, positioned them the best I could in the main L/R position, crossed them over at 80Hz, and listened for about an hour to some of my favorites. Came away thoroughly impressed by the MC1's, amazing what they could do, everyone in the family could hear the difference. Now that my significant other has seen the MC1's, I received the go ahead to order the 1.7's, so I'll be pulling the trigger tomorrow. What makes the decision even easier was that the dealer is giving me a 2 week period to try them out, if for any reason they don't work for me I can receive full credit/exchange. Was also happy so see that my Anthem receiver could drive to MC1's to more than satisfying levels w/o any issues.

Thanks again to everyone for their thoughts & inputs.