[ChaoticBliss]

I have restarted my researched on pre-amps and I think I have narrowed my decision down to these 4:

deHavilland Ultraverve 3
SAS 11A
Dodd VGP Preamp
ModWright LS100 (probably have to pick this one up used due to the price difference).

Unfortunately because I am in Canada, doing in home trials isn't really going to work for me.  The only company that allows 'returns' is SAS but I'd still have to pay all the duty and shipping fees just to try it.   Has anyone had a chance to listen to one or more of these that can offer an opinion?   

My current system consists of a Rotel Pre, Bryston 3BSST amp and custom speakers.  I also have some basic room treatments installed.  I am currently finding the vocal range a little harsh on my system and was hoping a tube pre might help soften them up a bit.

Thanks for the advice

[jimdgoulding]

Love your moniker.  Guys better equipped than me should respond to your query.

[TomS]

I can't comment on the differences, but FWIW, Bill Baker at Response Audio/Purity Audio has a SAS 11A for sale, which is very rare to see. People who have them love them and don't part with them and $1700 is an absolute steal.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=4281.0

[earwaxxer]

Preamps are tough (expensive). I would try the W4S, you cant go to far wrong with that one. If you dont mind doing a little soldering and want to try tubes in the preamp position, you should buy a bottlehead kit. I have the Quickie. Its fantastic, and only $99. The warning though is that you could become a 'bottlehead'.

[jackman]

I can't comment on the differences, but FWIW, Bill Baker at Response Audio/Purity Audio has a SAS 11A for sale, which is very rare to see. People who have them love them and don't part with them and $1700 is an absolute steal.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=4281.0

Tom,

Thanks!  I haven't been on Nervosa for a while.   That's a great price for an 11 and I'm thinking about upgrading my 10.  Might be a 10 in the classifieds soon.  I wonder if its the latest 11 design.

I am a big fan of SAS.  Excellent preamps and great company.

Cheers

Jack

[Thirsty]

Try to find where the harshness is coming from before investing in a new preamp, it could be as simple as different interconnects, or maybe go to oil in paper caps in the speaker crossovers, maybe the source is the culprit. The four preamps you are considering are all very well regarded. I use a Shindo preamp feeding a Bryston 2BSST2 which sounds great, no harshness whatsoever.

[cheap-Jack]

I have restarted my researched on pre-amps and I think I have narrowed my decision down to these 4:

My current system consists of a Rotel Pre, Bryston 3BSST amp and custom speakers.  I also have some basic room treatments installed.  I am currently finding the vocal range a little harsh on my system and was hoping a tube pre might help soften them up a bit.Thanks for the advice

First off, I am not in a position to recommend any active preamp as I personally never like any active linestage assuming you play CDs not vinyl. Correct?

When you hear the vocal range "a little harsh", this may be caused by the SS preamp and/or the SS power amp or even yr CD player itself !

I can't find any published test report on yr 3BSST. Instead I found a Stereopohile journal test report of the 3BST power amp. What always draws my attention is the harmonic distortion spectrum analysis chart of any audio amp - an objective evaluation of how an amp would sound.

It showed on an simulated loudspeaker load as used in the test report, the 3rd harmonic distortion of 50Hz sinewave test signal came up very steep as quoted by Stereophile: "Note that the 3rd harmonic is the highest in level at -70dB (0.03%)".

Any odd orders of harmonics, eg 3rd, 5th, 7th.. would sound sorta "harsh" to our ears. The worst sounding is 3rd harmonic. Typical for many SS amps.

While I can't say yr 3BSST would also get the same unpleasant sounding odd harmonic distortion like 3BST.
It just for our reference.

Any preamp suggestion withOUT actual realtime audition is simply blind guessng. Like blind leading the blind.

Why not try something less hassle & much much less costly before you commit anything major that may wreck yr wallet? To replace yr CD player with a qualiy Blu-ray player to play yr CDs to find out if the vocal harshness will be gone.

I am still testing the sonic quality of my Blu-ray player vs my DVD-audio & CD player, & have found the blue-ray laser reading system sounds much much better than the CD player's red-ray laser.

If it works, you only need to replace yr CD player with a quality brandname Blu-ray player. Save tons of hassle & money getting the right sounding preamp.

While I am still test auditioning my CDs playing on my Blu-ray player, I can only tell you so far so good. My Blu-ray player sounds very promising indeed.

c-J


 

[Ericus Rex]

The only one of the four listed that I have heard is the Ultraverve.  And man, did it sound great!  Many disagree but I think the 6SN7 tube is a great sounding tube for preamps.  My Rogue 99 uses that tube and it replaced two preamps who relied on the ubiquitous 6DJ8 tube.  I got sweeter, more fleshed out vocals with the 99 which I can only attribute to the sound of the 6SN7 (the former 6DJ8 pres were definitely not slouchers!).  I have no idea how the DeHavilland compares to the other three you list.

[saisunil]

You have four good choices ... Agree with going after used market ...
SAS listed sounds tempting especially because you can make an offer

Based on my experience - for the money it would hard to find a better deal on preamp than Dodd ... It has gotten great reviews from users and magazines ...

[ChaoticBliss]

Thanks for the advice thus far.  I'll add a little more detail about my system. I use my computer as the source, feeding a Calyx DAC with external power supply into my preamp.  I have always had the harshness (and I have changed everything except the Pre and Speakers) so I am actually fairly sure it is the speakers and not the preamp.  To be clear I am not looking for a new preamp to fix the harshness, I am getting one because it is the last thing to upgrade on my list.  If it works out that it helps with the harshness then that is great.  Not the end of the world if it doesn't.  That is what led me to the tube preamp. Haven't tried any tube equipment before so it is something I would to try out.

Thanks again

[catastrofe]

I've had the DeHavilland Mercury 3 and SAS 11A in my system.  I bought the 11A.  The only caution I would have is on the dual volume controls.  If you think audiophilia nervosa is bad now, just wait until you start worrying whether you have the volume exactly equal in both the left and right channels.   

[bummrush]

What about Bryston since your in CAN?

[bummrush]

When you replace the Rotel you'll be saying so that's what a decent preamp does.

[ChaoticBliss]

What about Bryston since your in CAN?

I've tried the a Byrston pre in my system and honestly didn't notice that much of a difference over the Rotel.  If anything it was even a little brighter than it is now.

Thanks

[S Clark]

The only one on your list that I have had ( and currently still have) is the Dodd.  I have both the original battery pre and the most recent generation (but not variable)- all have the same open, detailed sound.  The only thing that I can add is that both are very tuneable by changing tubes.  Want color and musicality, use Mullards, want detail- Seimens, both- Amperex orange globe.  I was talking to Gary Dodd a couple of weeks ago. On his newer pre, he was very high on a tube I wasn't familiar with- cheaper and better than the 6h30dr that many of us are using. Sorry, can't remember what it was.  The point being, that the Dodd units respond very nicely to tube rolling.

Scott

[Ericus Rex]

I've had the DeHavilland Mercury 3 and SAS 11A in my system.  I bought the 11A.  The only caution I would have is on the dual volume controls.  If you think audiophilia nervosa is bad now, just wait until you start worrying whether you have the volume exactly equal in both the left and right channels.   

The dual-mono volume control is a dumb dumb idea.  The only reason to use this design is to eliminate the balance control and dual mono volumes make lousy balance controls (who uses balance controls anyway?).  Dumb dumb dumb.

[Early B.]

Thanks for the advice thus far.  I'll add a little more detail about my system. I use my computer as the source, feeding a Calyx DAC with external power supply into my preamp.  I have always had the harshness (and I have changed everything except the Pre and Speakers) so I am actually fairly sure it is the speakers and not the preamp.  To be clear I am not looking for a new preamp to fix the harshness, I am getting one because it is the last thing to upgrade on my list.  If it works out that it helps with the harshness then that is great.  Not the end of the world if it doesn't.  That is what led me to the tube preamp. Haven't tried any tube equipment before so it is something I would to try out.

Thanks again

So you say that you are fairly sure your speakers are the cause of the harshness, but you want to try a new preamp to fix the harshness in your speakers???  Why not try a different pair of speakers or upgrade the crossover?

[Jerrin]

The only one on your list that I have had ( and currently still have) is the Dodd.  I have both the original battery pre and the most recent generation (but not variable)- all have the same open, detailed sound.  The only thing that I can add is that both are very tuneable by changing tubes.  Want color and musicality, use Mullards, want detail- Seimens, both- Amperex orange globe.  I was talking to Gary Dodd a couple of weeks ago. On his newer pre, he was very high on a tube I wasn't familiar with- cheaper and better than the 6h30dr that many of us are using. Sorry, can't remember what it was.  The point being, that the Dodd units respond very nicely to tube rolling.

Scott

+1.     I also have a Dodd and I was shocked when I first gave it a listen.    Black background and just super clear and detailed.

[ChaoticBliss]

So you say that you are fairly sure your speakers are the cause of the harshness, but you want to try a new preamp to fix the harshness in your speakers???  Why not try a different pair of speakers or upgrade the crossover?

Like I said I am not trying to 'fix' the harshness, if one of these preamps helps then it a bonus.  My wife would kill me if I bought new speakers...the preamp she won't notice    I don't know enough about crossovers to make any changes there...they gentleman who built them originally has since passed away. 

Thanks

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

I use my computer as the source, feeding a Calyx DAC with external power supply into my preamp.  again

If you told us you use computer sound card as your source, we don't need to go thru such a merry-go-round. No wonder you get "harshness", most likely from yr computer sound card or yr DAC.

If you DAC gets volume control, then simply hook it up direct to yr power amp as yr DAC should get enough gain to drive the power amp direct. By eliminating the preamp, you can tell where the "harshness" comes from.

No harshness means the preamp must go. Harshness still there means either yr computer or the DAC
causes the bad sound.

c-J