[BruceSB]

We have a list of well over thirty electrostat/planar speaker manufacturers.
There are probably a couple more that will turn up in due course.

Some of those on the list that are really well known, high profile manufacturers whose speakers are those that lots of people have heard.
Then there are some other not so well known manufacturers that some people have heard.
Finally, there is (very probably the majority) which few, if any of us have ever heard.
I thought it might be helpful for people us to briefly share their thoughts on the sounds of the speakers on the list that they have actually heard and maybe some expectations of the sound of the others.

Let me get the ball rolling here. I have heard:
Most of the quads-loved them all massively, they sound so incredibly life like.
A number of martin logans-really liked them, thought the CLS was their best product that I have heard.
A number of maggies-really liked them, found them a little "HiFi" though.
Heil-didn't particularly like them, felt they were a little too bright.

I have also heard speakers from companies which no longer exist or no longer manufacture electrostats/planars: acoustat (which I own)-fantastic, crown-great, and an electrostat speaker whose name escapes me-terrible.
   
There are some speakers which I would expect to sound great for a variety of reasons including: reputation, years in business, really good reviews, etc. I would really love to hear these ones.
These would be Apogee, Audiostatic, Beveridge, Eminent Technology, ER Audio, Sanders, Soul Sonic, SoundLab and maybe King Sound.
That's about it.
That leaves almost two thirds of the list that I have no real idea about!!!

So, does anyone else feel disposed to briefly comment on the speakers on the list?

I think that lots of us would love to hear some comments on those low profile speakers that most of us have never heard.

What do you think?
Bruce

[medium jim]

Since I started the ball rolling...

I've heard the quads and really like them, very smooth like a bottle of single malt. I listened to several pairs of ML's and they too are rather smooth and velvety, but didn't win me over.

Not on the list are Apogee as they are no longer.  I musician friend of mine has a perfect pair of Diva's that I could easily live with. Very spacious and airy, yet very dynamic at the same time.

I've listened to all of the .7's from Magnepan at my local Magnepan dealer and think there just isn't anything close to them for clarity, detail, sound staging, and accuracy. The best deal in the audio world has to be the 3.7/20.7's.

My personal experience has been a pair of 1.6's and my 2.5's, which are 25 years old.  The 2.5's are a little more laid back than the current Magnepan's, which is what I like.  While laid back, are still über fast and have great micro and macro detail.  The soundstage is absolutely three dimensional and invisible. Needless to say, they create a lifelike listening experience.

Jim

[SteveFord]

I'm pretty much in line with medium jim so need to get out and about more.
No Apogees but I've heard quite a few Carver ribbons but under less than ideal settings.

[TNRabbit]

For the money I have in them, the Carver AL-IIIs are among the best I've heard.  I'm sure there are better, but only at MULTIPLES of what I've invested.

The new Carver Amazing Line Source have to be heard to be believed.  Astounding soundstage & dynamics.

[Hank]

I'm planning to buy planar - can't' resist all the good things said about them.  Speaking of Carvers, I have not read anything until your post, TNRabbit.  I see a couple pair of Amazing trapezoids and a pair of AL-IIIs on eBay.  Has anyone else here listened to Carvers?

[Jazzman53]

I heard Bob Carver's Amazing Line Source speakers at the Axpona show in Jacksonville.   They were mind boggling.... HUGE, crystal clear sound, POWERFUL, and something I had thought impossible hereto fore:  Very good imaging to everywhere in the room.   Normally, you can design for precise imaging, as in a flat panel ESL, or a wide dispersion, as in an MBL Radialstrahler, but you can't have both.  I don't know how the Bobfather pulled it off, but he's done the impossible again.   

[medium jim]

I heard Bob Carver's Amazing Line Source speakers at the Axpona show in Jacksonville.   They were mind boggling.... HUGE, crystal clear sound, POWERFUL, and something I had thought impossible hereto fore:  Very good imaging to everywhere in the room.   Normally, you can design for precise imaging, as in a flat panel ESL, or a wide dispersion, as in an MBL Radialstrahler, but you can't have both.  I don't know how the Bobfather pulled it off, but he's done the impossible again.   

I've heard the MBL's and they're damn good and will create energy in a room wherein everybody gets a sweetspot.  At the same time. I had a pair of KEF 104/2's that did the same and were damn near as sweet as the MBL's. 

I will have to get to a show where the Carvers can be heard.  The beauty of all of this is, competition creates an environment of excellence.   The addage, you are only as good as your competition is most true.

Jim

[SteveFord]

The Line Sources are a different animal, though.
The Amazings I've heard sounded good but I'd have to hear them in a familiar setting to really give an opinion.
Be forewarned - if you have a problem with the ribbons you may be in trouble. 
TNRabbit, Weitrhino and possibly Jazzman would know more about that than I would so perhaps they'll chime in?

[TNRabbit]

The Line Sources are a different animal, though.
The Amazings I've heard sounded good but I'd have to hear them in a familiar setting to really give an opinion.
Be forewarned - if you have a problem with the ribbons you may be in trouble. 
TNRabbit, Weitrhino and possibly Jazzman would know more about that than I would so perhaps they'll chime in?

I don't understand your comment, Steve; Charlie & I already chimed in...?

[SteveFord]

Hank is asking about the old Carvers, not the new Line Sources.
So, what if a ribbon goes south?
I don't know enough about the Carver Amazings to know if you can source ribbons or have to try and get them repaired?

[weitrhino]

I've never had an issue with my Carver ribbons.  None.  But for me these are not speakers to be used for incredible SPL's.  They do require some rather precise setup but once you have them properly placed they are magical. There are always options if things do go awry. Repair tends to be less expensive than replacing, and you'll be replacing with old stock.  Just take care of them and they should last a long time.

Hank, going with a pair of Carvers could be a reasonably cheap and good way to experience a planar design.  They're all used so it won't cost an arm and a leg to jump.  Educate yourself on the available models:


Amazing Loud Speakers (ALS)........the 'trapezoid variety' because Bob wanted them to look like an airplane wing.

~ Originals.  4 ohm nominal impedance, 4 honeycomb style woofers, 2  30" ribbons each, not designed for biamping
~ Silvers.  8 ohm nominal impedance, 3 cone woofers, single 48" ribbon
~ Platinums. 6 ohm nominal impedance, 4 cone woofers, single 60" ribbon, some iterations are designed for biamping
~ Platinum upgraded Originals, Started life as Originals, 6 ohm nominal impedance, 30" ribbon pairs replaced with single 60" ribbon, updated crossover, retains honeycomb woofers


Tall, slim design

~ AL-III. (not sure of the nominal impedance) Single down-firing woofer, single 48" ribbon, designed for biamping, built-in tone controls
~ AL-III Plus.  Same configuration as the AL-III except sans tone controls.

[TNRabbit]

Ah.  New old stock ribbons are still available from james@carveraudio.com.

Old ones.. is still rebuildable as well.

 The biggest enemy of the ribbons is hot and cold cycling. if you keep them in conditioned space they're pretty good for a long time.

 The woofers have foam surrounds which of course deteriorate over time. An Italian company makes replacement surrounds, but they are approximately 20 dollars each.  Replacement woofers are available for the original amazings and the siler & platinum models at @ $90 each.  There are no replacement for the woofers in the AL-IIIs.  We've come up with some great alternatives, though.

[Hank]

Thank you for the replies, guys!  After reading all the posts and other forums, I was VERY attracted to Acoustats - no negative comments (at least I didn't see any).
Now I see comments like TNRabbit's and Jazzman53's about the Carvers.  Are you guys specifically referring to the trapezoid or the tall slim designs?
What is unique about the Italian company's foam surrounds - are they a unique shape?
I do understand that planars require lots of current - I have an Acurus 200x3 power amp, but would be willing to invest in a high current used stereo amp.
I need dynamics - I play in a very large symphonic band, and know what realistic dynamics sound like - I've been disappointed in many loudspeaker showrooms.
Thanks in advance for replies.

[SteveFord]

I can help some.
Jazzman is talking about the current, $20,000 Amazing Line Source 1000s


http://bobcarver.com/als1000.asp

TNRabbit has these sexy looking speakers (ask his girlfriend)


and Weitrhino has this style but not the comfy chair


These speakers are from the original Carver Corporation, not the current Bob Carver LLC.

[Hank]

Thanks for the photos.  Here is an Acoustat Model 4 on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/121008542960?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Has anyone experienced this model?
Here are Carver trapezoids:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carver-Amazing-Tower-Speakers-Ribbon-Tweeter-One-Owner-Excellent-/130785349172?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item1e736a0e34
And here are the ALS III's:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Carver-Amazing-ALS-III-Ribbon-Loud-Speakers-A-really-Nice-Pair-/280930582725?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item4168c480c5
I would imagine there are some modern, "faster" woofers that I could replace the stock ones with.
There is no way I can listen to all these planars so I am going by what you guys write and what other owners and former owners are saying on other forums.
I have been building speakers for many years (built Danny's original gigantic Alpha LS array cabinets with Padauk veneer), so I could build electrostatics, like Jazzman53, but just don't have the time nowadays.

[Wallacefl]

I have the ML CLSZ2...best midrange I have ever heard.  I feel Mag 20.1 has the best top end and it may have the best planar bass . Quad 57 is special but still an antique...I would like to hear their 2905s.

[SteveFord]

Wallcefl,
Weren't you doing a 3.6 and CLSZ2 shoot out and may the best speaker stay?
I came within a phone call of grabbing some CLS' but ended up going the .7 route.

Hank,
Jazzman's the 'stat builder, I'm the one in the sea of Maggies (which isn't a bad thing).

I guess the question is what is your budget, how much room can you devote to speaker placement and what gear will you be using?

[medium jim]

This thread has certainly evolved.  I feel like a Cabernet, no make it a nice Burgundy. Again, choice is good !

Jim

[Jazzman53]

Most of use couldn't cough up 20K for the BobFather's ALS's anyhow. 
We all know I'm biased toward DIY electrostats, but for store bought speakers I think Maggies give the best sound-per-dollar in Hi-Fi.  I've never heard the Acoustats but I've heard they sound fantastic and used ones can be had rather cheap, if you can find them.  I've also heard that Acoustats are very robust but not easily repaired. 
   
Aside from the woodwork, DIY electrostats are simple, inexpensive and relatively easy to build... about $400 and a 3-day weekend to assemble a pair of panels and power supplies from scratch.   The woodwork can take a lot of time and effort, depending on how elaborate you want to go.     

[BruceSB]

I have acoustat spectra 22s.
I have had them for maybe 23 years.
They sound a treat.
I have not heard any speaker sounds better (but some that are as good, for example the quads, of which I have heard virtually all of them).
Would I recommend them to others?
Yes, in a heart beat.
BUT...
Let me tell you something of what I have experienced and what I have picked up.
First off I don't think anyone really expects speakers to go for 23 plus years without some minor hick ups.
I have lost some volume in the left speaker.
I thought and my enquiries confirmed that this is probably a result of a voltage drop.
So, after 23 plus years they do need a good check out.
The other issue is that the frames (which are some sort of plastic which goes brittle with time) are now fragile.
My own plan is to buy some new electrostats and the amps to drive them and then, in due course, get the acoustats fixed up and pass them on to one of my boys (both of whom love them to death).
As regards driving the acoustats there seem to be lots of stories of people (literally) burning out amps with them!
As for me I have used a quad 606 on them for their whole life with no problems.
In fact the quad 606 barely gets warm.

So if you want a great electrostatic speaker at a very good price by all means go for the acoustats but just treat them very gently and be prepared to get them checked over.
Regards.
Bruce