[Jazzman53]

Here's a thread from a former Acoustat employee and expert regarding their repair:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/183168-acoustat-answer-man-here.html#post2469645

[Hank]

You guys are great with your input - keep it coming!  So here is a given:  I am a solder-slinger from way back.  I can do repairs, capacitor replacement, etc.  Given that, I am so alured to Acoustats, but now you have me looking at Carvers.  After an email conversation, I think I can hardwood frame and crossover mod the very unique Maggie 2.7.  Given all that, guys, keep giving me feedback.  Please 

[SteveFord]

It looks like you're from Austin, TX so take a trip here:

http://www.audiosystems.com/

and this will help you with your search.  No Acoustats or Carvers but you'll get to hear Magnepan and Martin Logan driven by some nice gear.

[Wallacefl]

Wallcefl,
Weren't you doing a 3.6 and CLSZ2 shoot out and may the best speaker stay?
I came within a phone call of grabbing some CLS' but ended up going the .7 route.

Hank,
Jazzman's the 'stat builder, I'm the one in the sea of Maggies (which isn't a bad thing).

I guess the question is what is your budget, how much room can you devote to speaker placement and what gear will you be using?

....from Wallacefl....not me but it sounds like fun.

[Hank]

Thanks Jazzman53 - everything I've read about Acoustats leads me to believe they have the most rugged panels and will play forever unless physically damaged - maybe a gentle cleaning and application of heat gun after all these years.

Thanks Steve - last time I was at Magneplanar (been to the factory a couple of times, during biz trips to St. Paul - I work at 3M Austin) they told me about this Austin dealer.  Just listening to 2 of the 4 possibilities won't help, plus the big thing is that I'd be listening to current models, when my budget will only handle 'used'.

[SteveFord]

I see Acoustats in your very new future.

[medium jim]

Thanks Jazzman53 - everything I've read about Acoustats leads me to believe they have the most rugged panels and will play forever unless physically damaged - maybe a gentle cleaning and application of heat gun after all these years.

Thanks Steve - last time I was at Magneplanar (been to the factory a couple of times, during biz trips to St. Paul - I work at 3M Austin) they told me about this Austin dealer.  Just listening to 2 of the 4 possibilities won't help, plus the big thing is that I'd be listening to current models, when my budget will only handle 'used'.

Hank:

Not a darn thing wrong with buying used.   It has allowed me to build my dream system.  The only thing I paid full pop for are my Marantz Model 9's....but even they were gently used.  My speakers are 25 year old Magnepan MG2.5R's that I had to do some repairs on.  Even with the new Ribbon Tweeters, I'm into them for under $1000.00 and are for my room size, simply the best sounding speaker.  As I have said several times, I was a Maxwell Smart "Would you believe"  this close to buying a used pair of 3.6's from my local Magnepan dealer. 

My 2.5's did have upgraded caps and inductors from the previous owner, but otherwise are stock.  The first pair of Magnepan's I owned were a pair of used (get the idea) of 1.6QR's that changed my way of listening.  At that point, I owned a 60WPC JoLida that just didn't drive them very well, even with a pair of subs.  I was on a different forum and most of the inmates chastised me into believing that I needed a zillion watts to drive them.  I bought into that theory and bought a Bryston 4Bst2 and a Parasound HCA 1500A to try with the 1.6's...both were wonderful, but the soundstage and holographic qualities I had with the JoLida were not there. 

At this point I went in a tailspin and sold the Parasound, Bryston and bought my Marantz's.  They were able to drive the 1.6's and nicely, but for some unexplained reason, I sold them.  That set off a 4 year search for the right speakers for my system.  I went and heard everything in 50 miles of my residence and the damn Magnepan's kept on capturing my ears.   I lived nicely with a pair of KEF 104/2's that after some research told me were around 85db sensitive and I had no problem driving them.  The quest for the right pair of Magnepan's was on again in earnest.   The 2.5's were the winner and I have had them for well over a year now and can honestly say, for me, I made the correct choice.   Even though my quest was for Magnepan's, I did hear a lot of ML's, my friends Diva's and wonderful pair of quad 57's to go with some amazing box and horn speakers.

While common sense tells me that there are better speakers out there, my ears and brain think differently and that is all that matters at the end of the day.

There is no shame in used!

Jim

[SteveFord]

I just remembered that Rollo may be giving away some IIIA's which have wire delamination.
I don't have room for them but those are good sounding speakers.

[medium jim]

I just remembered that Rollo may be giving away some IIIA's which have wire delamination.
I don't have room for them but those are good sounding speakers.

The IIIA's are 3way 2.5's and would make a great project.  If I were near Rollo, I would be all over them!

Jim

[weitrhino]

Here are Carver trapezoids:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carver-Amazing-Tower-Speakers-Ribbon-Tweeter-One-Owner-Excellent-/130785349172?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item1e736a0e34
And here are the ALS III's:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Carver-Amazing-ALS-III-Ribbon-Loud-Speakers-A-really-Nice-Pair-/280930582725?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item4168c480c5
I would imagine there are some modern, "faster" woofers that I could replace the stock ones with.

Prices on both of these are above what I would pay. The 'trapeziods' as you call them are Originals worth maybe just over half the asking price.  You'd not be able to replace the woofers as they are a very specific design but you can get matched replacements from Dynavox.

The AL-III's are different in that there are options to replacing the single woofer.  A little searching around the web will yield different results and choices.  I think this seller is also overpriced as I've seen identical pairs sell for a low of $600.  They also come in oak finish.

I'm in NC should you wish to tilt your ears toward a pair of Carver Platinums. 

[Hank]

SteveFord wrote:

I see Acoustats in your very new future.

  Heh-heh - well, I've read fewer negative comments about Acoustats than any other brand.
As I noted, these are on eBay:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/121008542960?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Anyone hear them?
weitrhino wrote: 

You'd not be able to replace the woofers as they are a very specific design but you can get matched replacements from Dynavox.

So, the trapezoids are over priced and you say their woofers are irreplaceable, but I can get replacements - I don't understand.  Do you mean I can't get factory replacements, but Dynavox is a good substitute?
The trapezoids don't have dynamic cone woofers, do they?

[weitrhino]

Yes, that particular pair of Amazings is over priced.  The open baffle design has certain requirements, and with regard to the Carvers that design required a proprietary woofer.  You cannot simply choose from all the subwoofers on the market however exact replica woofers are available from Dynavox.  To better understand this design it may be best to start with a well written review because Carver deviates from the norm.  The following is a quote from:  http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/290carver/index.html

Simply put, the idea is to introduce an under-damped or peaky woofer into the baffle and let the peak in the woofer response compensate for the front-to-back bass cancellation of the baffle.

Sounds simple at first blush, but boy, are there technical difficulties lying in the bush, as Bob will only too gladly tell you. He's spent the last two and a half years addicted to the notion of perfecting this planar speaker—until recently to the detriment of Carver the Company and his own personal life. Speaker designers are a breed apart, junkies whose highs are derived from doing battle with the laws of physics. And to judge from my recent encounter (of the third kind) with Bob, the fire still burns bright. His enthusiasm for the Amazing and his untiring drive to improve them clearly go beyond the call of duty.

To underdamp a woofer you have to reduce the size of the magnet. As the magnet size is reduced, the electrical Q of the driver increases, and with it its total Q. The problem is that the efficiency of the woofer is reduced at the same time. The absurd conclusion of this scenario is zero magnet, zero efficiency, and of course zero cone motion. To improve the efficiency of a woofer with a miniature magnet it is therefore necessary to drastically reduce its moving mass. The idea is to try to keep constant the ratio of force to mass, hence a constant woofer acceleration factor. Because most of the moving mass is represented by the cone, that's where you have to cut. What you end up with at the end is a woofer with a gossamer-thin cone and an unbelievably tiny magnet—quite unlike the traditional woofer with its heavy cone and beefy magnet.

So radically different was Carver's woofer design that Tonegen, its Japanese manufacturer, refused at first to produce it. It took a personal visit by Bob to convince them that that was truly what he wanted.



The woofer pictured above is for the Platinum and Silver version Amazings. Note the comparatively tiny magnet.  The woofers below are on the original Amazing with a pair of 30" ribbons. They are not interchangeable with Plat or Silver versions. 

[Hank]

Thanks weitrhino - now I understand the driver compliment of the trapezoids.  I did not know that they are hybrids.   Yes, those ARE radically different woofers.  The ALS III's may be the way to go in the Carver world.  Leaning toward Acoustat or maybe Maggie 2.7's.  Who knows...

[medium jim]

Thanks weitrhino - now I understand the driver compliment of the trapezoids.  I did not know that they are hybrids.   Yes, those ARE radically different woofers.  The ALS III's may be the way to go in the Carver world.  Leaning toward Acoustat or maybe Maggie 2.7's.  Who knows...

Hank:

I would look for the 2.6 or 2.5's as they are true ribbons, the 2.7 are Quasi Ribbons.

Jim

[Hank]

medium jim - the 2.7 opp is from an email exchange with Peter Gunn - he does something to them which apparently makes them sing.

Guys, I made an offer on these Acoustat Spectra's on eBay:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/181014036842?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1432.l2649
I offered quite a bit lower than the asking price.  We'll see...

[rollo]

I just remembered that Rollo may be giving away some IIIA's which have wire delamination.
I don't have room for them but those are good sounding speakers.

  Come and get em gents. Also have a pair of ribbons for 2.7 brand new.


charles

[medium jim]

  Come and get em gents. Also have a pair of ribbons for 2.7 brand new.


charles

Charles:

Where are you located? 

Thanks,
Jim

[Hank]

Yes, where?  So, you have a pair of the HF QR ribbons?

[SteveFord]

I just took a look at the eBay ad, I'll bet the bass is a little thin! 
A pair of real subwoofers would help things considerably.

[Hank]

Oh yes, no matter what I buy, I will build 2 servo subs 
BTW, the seller has not rejected my offer, but there are 4 days left in the "auction".