Sanders

worldcat · « **on:** 23 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm »

I really like the Sanders at the show. He has really done a good no a great job integrating the bass woofer to the panel. The best sound at the show i thought and the best electrostatic i have heard.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 02:42 pm »

Did you hear the King electrostats at the show as well? Can you share any comparisons?

Did the Sanders come off sounding so transparent that the musicians sounded like ghosts with no body?

Thanks,

Rocket_Ronny

jsm71 · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 09:52 pm »

I didn't get to RMAF this year, but I see that he is still using the basic same setup as in past years with the exception of using his new preamp. He even sets up his room identically with the same "woodsy" backdrop. I think his sound is stellar if a little sterile. I wouldn't say it is too transparent, but I would like to hear some tubes somewhere in the signal path just to add a little something softer. Way too much SS.

worldcat · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 02:05 am »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 23 Oct 2012, 02:42 pm

Did you hear the King electrostats at the show as well? Can you share any comparisons?

Did the Sanders come off sounding so transparent that the musicians sounded like ghosts with no body?

Thanks,

Rocket_Ronny

I really like how the sanders sounded not too transparent at all. The kings sounded muffled a reviewer was in the room he told me you needed the front and back grilles off to sound there best. I would like to get a pair a see how good they are. The sanders the way they are designed helps with less than perfect rooms to get good sound. All of this and they were playing them with a 400 source. Lots and lots of rooms had more expensive sources than everything you could buy for the sanders. Amazing speaker for the price.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 02:48 am »

I heard both at RMAF and they are both very good speakers. The Sanders are more directional, so they image very precisely and are less affected by the room size, which was too small for either speaker IMO. The Sanders were a little on the forward/bright side but not in a bad way if you like a more forward presentation, which I do. The Kings are less directional and sound more like a dipole as they are a full range 'stat, but still image really well and have a large sweet spot, plus they are a bit more laid back and sweet sounding. The Kings were running off a tube amp while the Sanders used a Sanders SS amp.

It would be hard for me to make a decision without more listening, but if that's not possible I don't think you can make a bad choice here. My personal preference leans towards the Kings, but that could be more a result of the associated amps. Also, the Kings were $13k, the Sanders were the same price with a Sanders amp, and of course the required Behringer 2496 active x-over.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 03:16 am »

Quote

a reviewer was in the room he told me you needed the front and back grilles off

That would have to be the very tall Douglas Schroeder from Dagogo. He has been kind enough to share his insights with me. He is about to come out with a review on the new King IIIs. He really liked them.

Dave: The Kings have that sound due to the amps. If you put those Carvers on the Sanders it would sound the same for the most part I would think.

I heard the King "Prince" a while back. Ah, dipoles. Very nice. Takes a lot of power to get up to my prefered listening level. And just like the AVGuide review of the Princes I heard a suckout in the 100-150hz range. The older Princes really looked awesome as well. Too bad they are going for the Maggie look with the cloth.

Rocket_Ronny

rbbert · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 03:16 am »

I would agree completely with Dave's description of the two rooms.

sahihe · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 06:19 am »

I loved the Sanders room. I found it to be one of the best in the show, irrespective of price.
There were no fancy interconnects, no $1000 power cables, no anti-vibration devices, no $8K power strips, a $400 source and yet the system sounded fantastic - dynamic and musical - something that couldn't be said about many of the 6 figures+ rooms.

The Kings were very musical also, with a slightly less impact though. I felt electrostats as a category were offering excellent quality at reasonable prices - a tremendous value.

josh358 · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 05:14 pm »

That reinforces my sense that if you need fancy (as opposed to solid) electronics to get good sound, you're compensating for a flaw in your setup. I think we waste a lot of money on this. The difference between good electronics, if they're properly chosen and interfaced, is very, very subtle. The huge audible differences come about from for example using high output impedance amplifiers into a reactive load. You're building a graphic equalizer when you do that.

I also have the sense that stats that beam the highs tend to sound bright, even if they're flat or have a slight downtilt. I'm not sure why this would be the case since the power response is actually depressed in the highs rather than raised. They certainly sound more detailed and "headphone like." I find that nearfield listening can have a similar effect -- increased clarity, less of a spatial impression -- and there's some research that backs this up. Actually, on a theoretical basis, I don't think either approach can be said to be "right." It depends on your preferences, room, and what kind of music you listen to.

worldcat · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 06:35 pm »

I never thought the Bob Carver amps sounded good on anything i have heard them on. Sanders best sound at the show IMO! There were others that were very nice as well.

jsm71 · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 07:39 pm »

I don't think using an inexpensive source hurts Sanders' setup much. Don't forget that the great sound that Sanders gets is in no small part to his own amps. He uses the Magtech on the bass and either a second Magtech or his ESL amp for the ESL panels. That totals $9-10k just for amps because his system must be bi-amped. As an owner of the Magtech I can attest to that amp's quality. It always gets mentioned for the power output, but the quality of the sound and cool operation is even more important to me. I'd still love to hear his system with a tube preamp tossed in though.

In an Absolute Sound review last year for the King's Prince IIs Robert Greene really touted the speakers but also went out of his way to rave about the Magtech which he used with the setup. I have also noticed that a great many Martin Logan and Maggie owners opt for the Magtech. If you are running stats or other planars it is a hard amp to top. I think it is easier to get away with less expensive sources than to cut corners with the amp/preamp choices.

rbbert · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 09:20 pm »

Don't forget that one of the amps is included in the purchase price of the Sanders.

worldcat · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 06:39 pm »

You can use the magtech for the top and buy a 400watt crown class d amp to drive the bottom.

catastrofe · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 07:17 pm »

I drive my Sanders with two Magtechs. . .one for each channel.

worldcat · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 08:15 pm »

Yes that's great but if you need to save a few bucks you can start with another amp on the bottom.

bummrush · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 09:27 pm »

Between Sanders and Coda,they are as good as stereo gets. without the BS that comes around so often.

bernardo · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 09:48 pm »

I am planning to take advantage of Sanders 30 day home trial next year. I have a couple of questions:

For those of you that did the 30 day home trial did the speakers sound good right from the start or did they need a fair amount of run time to sound good?

For those of you who either own the 10c’s or have heard them do they do justice to rock as well as classical and jazz?

catastrofe · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 11:01 pm »

Quote from: bernardo on 29 Oct 2012, 09:48 pm

I am planning to take advantage of Sanders 30 day home trial next year. I have a couple of questions:

For those of you that did the 30 day home trial did the speakers sound good right from the start or did they need a fair amount of run time to sound good?

For those of you who either own the 10c’s or have heard them do they do justice to rock as well as classical and jazz?

Trust me, you won't be sending them back. They sound great right off the bat. . .not much run in. Spend some time with the positioning as it will pay off well. They do justice to all music genres.

catastrofe · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 11:02 pm »

I can also highly recommend Roger's preamp. It sounds fantastic.

bummrush · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Oct 2012, 01:04 am »

Although not a Sanders . I have a Coda windows 4 pre I just couldn't be happier.