[rick240]

Jim,

Since you are working with the Accuton mids in the SoundScapes, have you ever worked with their C173-6-096E woofer?

As it has 94 db sensitivity, as does the Raal 140-15D, it would seem to my uneducated mind that pairing these two would make an excellent sounding, high efficiency two way speaker (to be paired with a Rythmik/Salk sub of course).

Would such a speaker make sense? And would it's sound compare with an HT1?

Thanks,

Rick

[ricardojoa]

It is going to be one expensive 2 way!

[rick240]

I guess it makes sense - very similar to the Vapor Cirrus White (he uses the Raal 70-20XR instead of the 140-15D I mentioned).

Jim, what are the differences in the different Raals?

Definitely be interesting to compare with an HT1 in terms of sound quality and dynamics.

And yea Ricardo, likely to be quite expensive; Cirrus White is $5500+ for a pair, whereas HT1 are $2700 plus veneer (the Accutons are about $700 per driver from Madisound, so make an HT1 with them and they become $4100+).

[ricardojoa]

Considering the cost of the drivers, i think the cirrus white is reasonably priced. It is just that is a bit too much for a 2 way bookshelf speaker. For that kind of money, i guess i would want a three way.
Even with thsoe high sensitive drivers, it will probably end up in the 90-91db range. I think at around $5600 or so, Jim could possibly offer a tower M7 with dual 7 woofer at around 88db. Look at the soundscape center, it is around $2800, and i think that could be built as a tower with a little crosover tweak. One thing im suprised is that the center digs down to 31HZ at -3db, is that a typo? or could it dig that deep?
Of course the cabinet style are complety different.

[rick240]

Considering the cost of the drivers, i think the cirrus white is reasonably priced. It is just that is a bit too much for a 2 way bookshelf speaker. For that kind of money, i guess i would want a three way.

I think at around $5600 or so, Jim could possibly offer a tower M7 with dual 7 woofer at around 88db. Look at the soundscape center, it is around $2800, and i think that could be built as a tower with a little crosover tweak. One thing im suprised is that the center digs down to 31HZ at -3db, is that a typo? or could it dig that deep?
Of course the cabinet style are complety different.

Depends what you are looking for. For me, size is an issue. I prefer monitors 

The Raal has great range, allowing it to be crossed fairly low making an excellent two way with a capable mid/bass - in all instances i always assume there will be crossing over to a sub at 80Hz.

So I see no need for a T7 (tower version of an M7). In fact, I really like the M7, just think it is too large for rears in my current situation. I also think the Cirrus White are too large.

I like the size of the HT1. Just curious if replacing the W18 with the Accuton would make a significant difference in dynamics, etc.

And i guess that is also part of what I need to learn from Jim - how much bigger than an HT1 would a 2-way based on the Accuton C173 need to be in order to make a 5.2 HT crossed over at 80Hz 

Even with thsoe high sensitive drivers, it will probably end up in the 90-91db range.

This is something I would love to hear from Jim and/or Dennis on. I have no idea what a speaker sensitivity would be for a two-way with two 94db sensitive drivers.

[DMurphy]

Based on my experience, which cost me something like $800, running only one Accuton woofer is just too dangerous.  As soon as they hit x-max, they shatter like an egg.  I  would never run a single--it would have to be paired with another to form an MTM or MMT.  And there goes the small size.  And any hint of affordability. 

[rick240]

Based on my experience, which cost me something like $800, running only one Accuton woofer is just too dangerous.  As soon as they hit x-max, they shatter like an egg.  I  would never run a single--it would have to be paired with another to form an MTM or MMT.  And there goes the small size.  And any hint of affordability.

Interesting...thanks for the "limitation" info.

What about the two-way, but using the PHL from the Pharos speaker (is that the 1330 or the 1220) rather than an Accuton?

Any feel for what the sensitivity or listening experience would compare to an HT1 replacing the W18 with a PHL 1220 (or would one have to build one to have an opinion)?

[DMurphy]

I would have to see how the PHL models in a small cabinet.  I don't think much will be happening in the bass department.  Maybe Jim has some thoughts. 

[rick240]

I would have to see how the PHL models in a small cabinet.  I don't think much will be happening in the bass department.

According to the 1330 spec sheet, it would have an F3 of about 50Hz in a 10-12 litre box tuned to 60-65Hz. How big is the HT1 box?

Would that be good in a 5.2 system crossed to the subs at 80Hz?

Maybe Jim has some thoughts.

Thanks to both of you (and any others) for providing input. This is all long term (certainly more than 12 months) planning for HT upgrading.

[ricardojoa]

Hi Dennis, could you confirm on the f3 for the SS center wether it is down to 31hz or not? Pretty impressive if it is.

No, that should be 39Hz, not 31Hz.

- Jim

[ricardojoa]

No, that should be 39Hz, not 31Hz.

- Jim

Thats a odd response. I dont mean the context but how come Jim is posting under my account? And my post is gone? what happened?

[jsalk]

That is strange.  Must be a bug in the bulletin board software. Or maybe I hit "modify" by mistake and have powers I did not know I had!

- Jim

[ratso]

jim aka "big brother" is taking over the boards.

[jsalk]

jim aka "big brother" is taking over the boards.

Yeah, now we're going to get some real positive reviews!

- Jim

[fsimms]

Yeah, now we're going to get some real positive reviews!

- Jim

When I play most of my vinyl records with my SoundScapes I get chills running down my arms. 

Bob

[ricardojoa]

That is strange.  Must be a bug in the bulletin board software. Or maybe I hit "modify" by mistake and have powers I did not know I had!

- Jim

Anyway Jim,

is PHL driver a good alternative to be substituted on the Soundscape M7 aluminum woofer if someone wanted more efficiency to go with tube amps?

[ratso]

seriously though, i would also be curious to know how you guys would do a high-sensitivity speaker, be it 2 way, 3 way, horn, whatever.

[fsimms]

seriously though, i would also be curious to know how you guys would do a high-sensitivity speaker, be it 2 way, 3 way, horn, whatever.

Jim did one.  It is called the Pharo.

http://salksound.com/pharos%20high-efficiency%20-%20home.htm

I think he only has sold one.  It is in Houston and I got a chance to see it.  It looked nice and didn't seem overly large.  Regretfully, It was in a very small room with no treatment so I couldn't hear it at it's best.  I think he also made a high efficiency monitor awhile back with different drivers.

Bob

[rick240]

Jim did one.  It is called the Pharo.

http://salksound.com/pharos%20high-efficiency%20-%20home.htm

I think he only has sold one.  It is in Houston and I got a chance to see it.  It looked nice and didn't seem overly large.  Regretfully, It was in a very small room with no treatment so I couldn't hear it at it's best.

That's too bad. I'd be very interested in how the high efficiency ones compare in SQ.

I think he also made a high efficiency monitor awhile back with different drivers.

I've never heard of this one. And that is more the direction I am wondering - an HT1 with PHL instead of Seas

Standard HT1 may still end up being the best route, but really curious...

- custom Raal vs other Raals

- PHL vs Seas; SQ equivalent, or big difference

- speaker system sensitivity with two 94 or 93 db sensitive drivers

- HT1 volume (PHL needs 10-12 litres; is that bigger or smaller than an HT1)

Just wondering  Discussion and exploration in the upgrade planning stage is always fun 

[ricardojoa]

i think by using phl driver are possible, but will sacrifice bass down low.