[charmerci]

Jim also did the Archos - 94db...

http://salksound.com/archos%20open%20baffle%20-%20home.htm

[Nuance]

In my experience, which may differ from yours, the higher sensitive drivers usually come with two major cons: detail loss and tonal accuracy (or lack there of).  I've only heard one high sensitive speaker that sounded near "correct" to me concerning instrument tone and timbre, and that was the Seaton Catalyst.  More exist for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they cost a significant amount of money. 

With that said, I'd love to have a more sensitive, easier to driver pair of audiophile speakers.   I believe Jim has experimented with many high sensitive drivers, but I don't know whether any fully lived up to his standards. 

[rick240]

In my experience, which may differ from yours, the higher sensitive drivers usually come with two major cons: detail loss and tonal accuracy (or lack there of).  I've only heard one high sensitive speaker that sounded near "correct" to me concerning instrument tone and timbre, and that was the Seaton Catalyst.  More exist for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they cost a significant amount of money. 

With that said, I'd love to have a more sensitive, easier to driver pair of audiophile speakers.   I believe Jim has experimented with many high sensitive drivers, but I don't know whether any fully lived up to his standards.

And I have no experience with them at all - hence all of the questions.

From reading, it seems that the Accuton would live up to audiophile standards - but Dennis' warning about using a single driver seems dire (it'll be interesting to hear what customer experiences are with the Vapor Cirrus White - may be they would work better in a MTM ala HT2, but I'm exploring if a two-way system that is up to snuff may be possible).

[ricardojoa]

In my experience, which may differ from yours, the higher sensitive drivers usually come with two major cons: detail loss and tonal accuracy (or lack there of).  I've only heard one high sensitive speaker that sounded near "correct" to me concerning instrument tone and timbre, and that was the Seaton Catalyst.  More exist for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they cost a significant amount of money. 

With that said, I'd love to have a more sensitive, easier to driver pair of audiophile speakers.   I believe Jim has experimented with many high sensitive drivers, but I don't know whether any fully lived up to his standards.

It could be, but in the case of the SSm7, replacing the bass driver with a higher sensitivy ones allows less padding on the mid and high, and since the accutton will handle the mid, the compromise shouldnt be too much except for bass extension.
A higher sensitivity speaker would be more benifical if someone wanted to use with tube gear without buying too much tube watts which is expensive. The phl should dig dow to mid 50 F3,

[rick240]

Quite a few views in a short period...

...seems a lot of people are interested in Jim's impressions of the SQ of high sensitivity drivers and what it might do to the size, speaker sensitivity and SQ of an HT1 like speaker...

[DMurphy]

It could be, but in the case of the SSm7, replacing the bass driver with a higher sensitivy ones allows less padding on the mid and high, and since the accutton will handle the mid, the compromise shouldnt be too much except for bass extension.
A higher sensitivity speaker would be more benifical if someone wanted to use with tube gear without buying too much tube watts which is expensive. The phl should dig dow to mid 50 F3,

I'm afraid that wouldn't work.   The Accuton midrange is barely padded as is.  It's not very sensitive, and it would be overwhelmed by a more efficient woofer.  So you would have to double up on the Accutons, and then get a bank loan.  Or vice versa. 

[rick240]

I'm afraid that wouldn't work.   The Accuton midrange is barely padded as is.  It's not very sensitive, and it would be overwhelmed by a more efficient woofer.  So you would have to double up on the Accutons, and then get a bank loan.  Or vice versa.

I thought that would be the case for a M7 after looking at the Accuton midrange specs, but with just the Raal, hmmmm ??

[ricardojoa]

I'm afraid that wouldn't work.   The Accuton midrange is barely padded as is.  It's not very sensitive, and it would be overwhelmed by a more efficient woofer.  So you would have to double up on the Accutons, and then get a bank loan.  Or vice versa.

Well, i should have been more specific, i think if the SS8 and SS center can achieve 87-88 db, then with the substitution of the phl bass driver can yield similar sensitivity, which is roughly 3 db higher over the M7 though not consider too high sensitivity but it also means i can cut half the power required.

[DMurphy]

Well, i should have been more specific, i think if the SS8 and SS center can achieve 87-88 db, then with the substitution of the phl bass driver can yield similar sensitivity, which is roughly 3 db higher over the M7 though not consider too high sensitivity but it also means i can cut half the power required.

I don't think a modest gain like that would be worth the loss of bass response.  And I think most people would be looking for a true high-sensitivity design.  I would have to test out the PHL to see how high it could play smoothly.  The RAAL shouldn't be crossed much lower than 2k, so things would have to be smooth sailing up to around 2500 Hz before a smooth overall system response could be achieved in a 2-way. 

[rick240]

I would have to test out the PHL to see how high it could play smoothly.  The RAAL shouldn't be crossed much lower than 2k, so things would have to be smooth sailing up to around 2500 Hz before a smooth overall system response could be achieved in a 2-way.

PHL claims 50-4000Hz for the 1330; this is "Usable frequency range (Allowing for energy response, excursion capability, Power spectrum, and -3dB low freq. roll-off for standard reflex tuning)" but without an FR graph.

What would the SQ be like compared to the Seas W18 though? Assuming less bass, but if it's paired to a sub at 80 Hz it should be OK, shouldn't it?

[rick240]

bump 

...seems a lot of people are interested in Jim's impressions of the SQ of high sensitivity drivers and what it might do to the size, speaker sensitivity and SQ of an HT1 like speaker...

PHL claims 50-4000Hz for the 1330; this is "Usable frequency range (Allowing for energy response, excursion capability, Power spectrum, and -3dB low freq. roll-off for standard reflex tuning)" but without an FR graph.

What would the SQ be like compared to the Seas W18 though? Assuming less bass, but if it's paired to a sub at 80 Hz it should be OK, shouldn't it?

[JLM]

With the right drivers, you can build a high sensitivity 2-way.  While there's no perfect speaker (at any price) you'll always have to make trade offs. 

A simple example of a high efficiency 2-way speaker is Hawthorne Silver Iris (96 dB/w/m, 40 - 20,000 Hz, open baffle, easily DIY'd for under $500/pair with their baffle kit).  The baffle is barely bigger than the driver.

More simple examples: Tekton and Zu each make several high efficiency 2-way towers starting at $650/pair that go just a low or lower; and of course Klipsch is a great example of old school design from back in the day when all amps were low wattage.

Do these make sense?  That's in the eye of the beholder.

Note higher efficiency drivers are usually more "colored" (less neutral) and revealing of system flaws/self-noise.

[rick240]

bump 

Jim, Dennis - no thoughts on SQ of PHL 1330 vs W18?

...seems a lot of people are interested in Jim's impressions of the SQ of high sensitivity drivers and what it might do to the size, speaker sensitivity and SQ of an HT1 like speaker...

PHL claims 50-4000Hz for the 1330; this is "Usable frequency range (Allowing for energy response, excursion capability, Power spectrum, and -3dB low freq. roll-off for standard reflex tuning)" but without an FR graph.

What would the SQ be like compared to the Seas W18 though? Assuming less bass, but if it's paired to a sub at 80 Hz it should be OK, shouldn't it?

[ricardojoa]

bump 

Jim, Dennis - no thoughts on SQ of PHL 1330 vs W18?

Rick, what kind a sensitivity are you looking?

[Wallacefl]

sorry to break in..but just for information and experimentation sake , what is the model number of the JBL woofer used in the Pharo?