Has anyone gone from stock caps to Auricaps?

pugs · « **on:** 10 Jun 2004, 08:07 pm »

I'm curious how big of an improvement the Auricaps make compared to stock caps. Has anyone heard examples of both versions?

I'm pondering getting them in my RM30M 6.5M and either LRC or RM30C. How big and what type of improvement do the Auricaps make?

Thanks

Wayne1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 08:22 pm »

You might want to look through this thread

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3680&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

We compared 626Rs with spiral tweeter and stock caps to spiral tweeter and Auricaps to FST and Auricaps.

The short version is the Auricaps and FST were preferred.

John Casler · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 12:55 am »

I recently upgraded my Demo 626Rs with stock caps and FST to the MLS 626R with Auricaps.

As a dealer you might think we hear this all the time, but really we seldom get a chance to spend time in a true A/B situation in the same room and same system.

This was one of those times. I had my former speakers playing for several hours just before the new speakers were inserted into the system.

First I have to say that Brian's stock caps are "trimmed" to very precise levels, well beyond stock caps of any other speaker I know of. This means that the Stock versions are superb.

That said, the Auricaps are just a level above that. I would say the greatest difference is in "tone". There is a "richness" of tone present in the Auricaps that is had to describe.

This quality is pretty much over the entire sonic spectrum and adds texture that is absolutley breathtaking when you first hear it.

Now that I have had the speakers for a few weeks and they are almost fully broken in, I have also found that they seem to have a more palpable 3-D "body" to the depth of all images.

While I have always had excellent soundstage depth, the caps seem to give the individual images a "body depth" that makes them less like a ViewMaster image (remember those) and more like real life.

This quality was "very" evident also in the "deep" bass produced and I still marvel at the "layers" of Low frequencies thrown out in front of me everytime I fire up "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" (Bella Fleck) which is regularly and often.

So, while the stock caps go beyond the call of duty, the Auricaps raise the bar again. At least in my system

StevenACNJ · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 10:39 am »

What make are the stock caps - Solen?

pugs · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 01:53 pm »

Quote from: StevenACNJ

What make are the stock caps - Solen?

That's what I've been told

James Romeyn · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 03:08 pm »

Brian uses a blend of both caps. The Solens are rich & musical. I have not auditioned the Axxon seperately, but my educated guess is Brian chose them to add speed & detail. The precise values are trimmed with good small value polypropylenes, but these will typically comprise less than 1% of the total value

jackman · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 03:36 pm »

Does anyone know the values of the caps? I have a pair of Audiocap Theta 10uf value caps. They are very large and very high quality. I don't know if they are a match for the cap value found in VMPS speakers but if they are, I bet they would sound good. Unfortunately, they are probably too expensive for any commercial manufacturer to use in their speakers. Here is the link to the information:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=10151

Thanks,
Jack

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 04:25 pm »

The TRT caps are the same price as the Thetas, indeed far too expensive for use in a commercial speaker system. That's why you don't find the Thetas or TRT's in those $125,000pr flagships.

Wait!! We offer the TRT's as a $1200pr option on all our systems, and many VMPS owners order them. Imagine that!

jackman · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 04:36 pm »

Sorry Brian, maybe I should have said the Thetas are too expensive to be offered as "standard" caps in commercial speakers.

Anyway, I have a pair for sale, however I'd check with Brian or the experts to see if they are the correct value for your VMPS speakers before purchasing.

Cheers,

Jack

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 04:40 pm »

How about this. You send me one of your Theta 10uF and I'll send you one of my 10uF TRT's. I'll set up an experiment where I use one 10uF (instead of the usual 5) as a simple crossover to a series array of ribbon mid panels presenting a 14 to 16 Ohm load, so that one cap will provide at 400Hz or so hinge point. Then I'll substitute a TRT for the Theta and see which I like. I can even do this blind. And I'll report. If the Theta's are better than the TRT then we'll offer them instead.

You can set up your own comparison and report independently.

Deal?

jackman · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 05:00 pm »

Brian,
I trust your ears and judgement on these matters. I just have an extra set of caps and have no application for them. I don't even know if they will work in any of your designs. I bought them and found that I needed a different value after a change in design. If you say certain caps sound better in your speakers, I'm in no position to argue. If you would like to try these (if you haven't already), I'd gladly sell to you for less than half of what they go for or just send them to you free of charge for your test. I have no use for them at the moment.

Thanks,
Jack

BrunoB · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 06:00 pm »

My experience with the stock caps was not good. At the beginning, my 626R-FST were sounding very nice. Progressively, the sound became dull and very grainy to the point I did not listen to music for 6 months. Yes, it took me 6 months to figure out where the problem was coming from. I first thought that my amp (Sony AVD-S50ES) was the problem. It wasn't. I put some Theta caps for the tweeter for testing: big improvement! I am on the right track. Thereafter, I decided to upgrade all the caps myself using Sonicaps. Jeff Glowacki from Sonic Craft was very helpful in choosing the caps and matching them precisely to get the right capacitance.

With the new caps, I love the sound of my system. No comparison. Day and night.

Stock vs Auricaps? I would say get the Auricaps or better.

Bruno

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 05:09 pm »

Would it be easy to update a VMPS speaker with the TRT caps yourself? What do they look like (capacitors, I am assuming), and where do they go? Could you just clip of the old one and solder on the new ones? What would be the price to order a pair of TRT's?

-Ed

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 06:16 pm »

A pair of VMPS speakers would require at least 16 TRT caps. On many systems (626, RM30) it is very difficult to replace stock caps with TRT's due to tight space inside the cabinet. You can always return speakers to the factory for update, there is no additional charge other than return shipping. For less expensive systems such as the 626 and smaller RM series the Auricaps give you most of the TRT performace for less than half the price ($550set vs $1200). For those who want the very best, TRT's are the way to go.

brj · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 08:02 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

For less expensive systems such as the 626 and smaller RM series the Auricaps give you most of the TRT performace for less than half the price ($550set vs $1200).

Maybe I'm splitting the hairs a bit fine here, but this seems to imply that the larger the RM series, the less effective the Auricaps are in achieving most of the TRT's performance. If this is the case, what causes this behavior?

Can you comment on Auricaps vs. TRT's in the RM30(C/M/M-6M)?

Thanks, Brian!

ctviggen · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 08:37 pm »

I think it's a cost factor -- the cost of the TRT caps is about the same, but the cost of the speakers varies. So, it might make sense to buy the $1,200 caps when a pair of speakers is $4,600, but it becomes a bit prohibitive when the pair of speakers is $1,500.

John B · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 09:28 pm »

Quote

it might make sense to buy the $1,200 caps when a pair of speakers is $4,600, but it becomes a bit prohibitive when the pair of speakers is $1,500.

Until you line up say, 3 pairs of 626Rs, one pair stock caps, one pair Auricaps, one pair TRT caps, and sit down for a compartive listening session, relative value can't really be determined. What got me to invest in the TRT caps for my 626Rs was a website I found where a guy talked about his experiences DIY'ing speakers. He talked about all the different caps he'd used over the years, and rated each one on what he felt it brought to the speakers ability to get the music right. Auricaps were right up there near the top, but on top were the TRTs, which he said were in a league by itself, it brought out the music like no other cap he'd ever used. So who knows, maybe wishful thinking to spend almost double the price of the speaker on caps, but I don't ever have to second guess whether I might have short changed my musical experience. And the one thing I do know for sure, these 626Rs sound better than any other speaker I've had in my rig. Which includes some $8K Dynaudios. I'm satisifed I got a good deal, not that I wouldn't be interested in doing a side by side with some 626Rs with the Auricaps

brj · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 09:34 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

I think it's a cost factor -- the cost of the TRT caps is about the same, but the cost of the speakers varies. So, it might make sense to buy the $1,200 caps when a pair of speakers is $4,600, but it becomes a bit prohibitive when the pair of speakers is $1,500.

Ah, but there is the rub! Say you have a fixed budget of about $4000. Do you get:

a) RM2/FST/Megawoofers with TRT caps: $2,899 + $1200 = $4099
b) RM30M/FST/Megawoofers with Auricaps: $3,499 + $550 = $4049

I use these solely as an example. The point is that Brian has enough different speaker and upgrade options that a potential buyer can meet a price point from multiple directions. How does one determine which to choose?

Note that I applaud having a wide range of options (assuming that a distinguishable performance difference accompanies each). I'm simply pointing out that such variety also requires a higher level of guidance for potential customers.

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jun 2004, 10:19 pm »

Good points!

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Jun 2004, 12:43 am »

The RM30 with Auricaps will sound better than the RM2 with TRT's IF you don't mind the half-octave higher cutoff in the bass with the RM 30.

You pays your money and takes your choice. Personally I'd add a sub to the RM30M even with the Megawoofers, because Iam so fond of first octave bass which the updated RM30M will not do.